(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[10800]OT[10/600 Canadian]
GN[British Go Championship - Game 2]PW[Andrew Simons (uberdude)]PB[Andrew Kay (warfreak2)]WR[4d]BR[4d]DT[2013-11-23]EV[British Go Championship 2013 Title Match]RO[Game 2]PC[Milton Keynes, UK]C[BGAadmin [-\]: We will be starting in about 10 minutes
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
CGBSpender [-\]: the score is 1-0 for warfreak :p
Prodigious [-\]: wow, every tournament is today
CGBSpender [-\]: uberdude has to win this one
xDragon [?\]: go uberdude
]
;B[pp]C[BGAadmin [-\]: And, we're off
BGAadmin [-\]: As CGBSpender said, Andrew Kay is one game up in this best of three series.
]
;W[dd]
;B[dp]C[Chirp [5d\]: so w will lose and this Andrew battle will come to a close
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well i dont have anything to do for 8 hours. so hopefully i have time to see the whole game :P
BGAadmin [-\]: Note, I am recording the game as I see it, sitting at the side. Andrew Kay (B) is to my left, and Andrew Simons (W) is on my right.
]
;W[pd]
;B[qf]
;W[nc]
;B[pj]
;W[nq]
;B[lq]C[thirdfogie [-\]: Andrew Simons \\o/
]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[nr]
;B[mo]
;W[qh]
;B[ph]C[backpack1 [-\]: r12 might be better at c6 
woodrose [1d\]: 180minutes is a lot
]
;W[qi]C[cloudo [2d\]: 180 min!!!!
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes, and the playser are playing quite fast!
Konservas [1k\]: they probably replaying some pro game now , the players i mean :D ( joke)
Filip41 [7k?\]: this is finals, or is it just first board of the whole Championship?
Chirp [5d\]: at least it would be interesting to watch
brogicus [4k\]: the championship is just between 2 people
Ukasuhs [5d\]: this is game 2 of the finals
Filip41 [7k?\]: ah, ok thanks. i
Konservas [1k\]: its best of three or five?
BGAadmin [-\]: The first round was at the start of May in Edinburgh. About 24 people played.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: 3
BGAadmin [-\]: The best 8 then played the Second round at the end of May in London.
Konservas [1k\]: so andrew must win now :)
BGAadmin [-\]: The top two from there, the two Andrews, are now playing a best-of-three match for the title.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: it could also be said that andrew must lose
KickAss [4k?\]: hahaha, I'm sure that Andrew will win this game
BGAadmin [-\]: http://britgo.org/bchamp/ for more info.
Konservas [1k\]: it could ;) but why so negative?:D
wobbledy: commentary today?
SiaBBo [3k\]: hope seo
Konservas [1k\]: yes :)
KickAss [4k?\]: both are Andrew, so Andrew win surely, no?? hahaha
cloudo [2d\]: who won the first round?
Konservas [1k\]: Andrew K
Ukasuhs [5d\]: b
bert [?\]: andrew, oc
Plax [10k\]: actually only one Andrew will win, the other will lose
cloudo [2d\]: wow warfreak... he once said he never reads anything in go :P
Konservas [1k\]: yea, he just taking his time for no reason now :)
backpack1 [3d\]: warfreak is saying a lot of stuff...
cloudo [2d\]: i guess so ;-)
thirdfogie [-\]: On my PC,KGS says the ruleset is Japanese.  Is that so?
BGAadmin [-\]: No, it is BGA rules, which is basically AGA rules.
backpack1 [3d\]: don´t know what b is thinking about , r10 is a mustplay
Ukasuhs [5d\]: because 'murrica
Nyanjilla [-\]: the result will be on the real board, not this one
BGAadmin [-\]: However, someone warned me that the KGS implementation of superko was not exactly right, so I should set Japanese rules.
BGAadmin [-\]: (I really hope we don't get a superko!)
Lothus [1d?\]: will be there guo juan commentary?
Nyanjilla [-\]: hmmmmmm....
thirdfogie [-\]: Admin: Thanks for explanation
Konservas [1k\]: there is low chance for that :0
Plax [10k\]: hm, would be nice
SiaBBo [3k\]: what's superko? :B
BGAadmin [-\]: Guo Juan will be giving a commentary starting at about 11:00am.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: q11 is more common
Plax [10k\]: no idea
Ukasuhs [5d\]: its not just one move possible here
Filip41 [7k?\]: i recon its that triple ko infinite loop situation
BGAadmin [-\]: I guess B is worried that if he plays R10, he ends up overconcentrated.
TobyM [2d?\]: A play at Q13 to gain thickness on the upper side is plausible
Konservas [1k\]: black is planning something
Lothus [1d?\]: oh, thx
Ukasuhs [5d\]: q13 doesnt gain thickness really
Ukasuhs [5d\]: because of cutting points
Lothus [1d?\]: black is great and alway plan something ;)
hiss [-\]: q11 not possible?
zaboomafoo [2k\]: q11 out of the question?
Plax [10k\]: q11 connects the 2 stones
BGAadmin [-\]: For the whole of the last game, AS had used more time. For the first time AK has used more.
Xirxaven [-\]: I have 4 games with this position on Gogod and Q11 played 3, R10 played 1.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: q11 and r10 are the 2 normal moves here
BGAadmin [-\]: But, this is a key moment.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: locally and globally
BGAadmin [-\]: Xirxaven, thanks.
]
;B[pi]C[huffle [1d\]: q11 played 70 times. r10 8 times.
Plax [10k\]: r10 now ?
Filip41 [7k?\]: someone should have made tournament emulation game mode for times like this made.
]
;W[qj]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: one 'made' too much. :d
]
;B[qg]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: i mean, fully edited with clock working etc. for streams in clients 
BGAadmin [-\]: R7, or S6?
Filip41 [7k?\]: R7
Plax [10k\]: this is sente for black I suppose
hiss [-\]: s6 hurt corner
SimbaRules [1k\]: Andrew Simons showed this position at the strong players event, he prepared up to about 20 moves further than here :) .
SimbaRules [1k\]: So I expect he already has a fairly solid plan.
BGAadmin [-\]: LOL. Thanks.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Np ;) .
SimbaRules [1k\]: Apparently their games are that predictable?!
LowKey [?\]: OT - How is TMark doin'g? Haven't heard anything for a long time.
BGAadmin [-\]: So far, AK has used 11 mins, AS 6 mins.
Lothus [1d?\]: A. Simons likes to study and memorise openings, but A. Kay don't
Plax [10k\]: this white group is gonna approach black's thickness right ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: At the end of the sequence he prepared, he wasn't sure if W was alive on the side without another move, and I showed him that he was :) .
Lothus [1d?\]: so it's not very predictable
SimbaRules [1k\]: So hopefully we will see a really brave W tenuki fairly soon.
cloudo [2d\]: s6 really posible here?
BGAadmin [-\]: Here is a photo from about 10 mins ago: https://twitter.com/tim_hunt/status/404190520152694784
SimbaRules [1k\]: I don't think S6 was what he prepared, lol.
Prodigious [-\]: r8 would be typical
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes, I think R8 also.
BGAadmin [-\]: S6 is the sort of rubbish I would try. Ignore it.
SimbaRules [1k\]: R9 is too slow.
SimbaRules [1k\]: S6 hurts the corner.
cloudo [2d\]: haha ok .. :P
Prodigious [-\]: r8 r9 s9 q9 s7 s12 t11 r17 or something 
hiss [-\]: R8 seems standard here
SimbaRules [1k\]: If B plays S5 after white S6, then black can play the S3/T2 two step hane.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Which is vicious.
Xirxaven [-\]: One of the Gogod games still has this and R9 M5 N2 followed
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yup, pretty much what he showed, Prod.
Lothus [1d?\]: s6 is really bad for w
SimbaRules [1k\]: Not sure if B R17 at that point or a bit after.
Xirxaven [-\]: Sorry, R9 P8 S7
Lothus [1d?\]: b s4 and w isn't happy about corner
SimbaRules [1k\]: S4 is aji-keshi.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Since S3/T2 two-step hane later is tesuji.
Plax [10k\]: s7 directly ?
cloudo [2d\]: oooh, nice sequence, somba
SimbaRules [1k\]: ^^
cloudo [2d\]: simba*
cloudo [2d\]: i didnt know that
SimbaRules [1k\]: Maybe next year I will be not here since actually playing in the title match! :P *Hopes*
Kaboom [4k\]: just r9? W can still cut at q13 
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah ^^ it's a nice one.
BGAadmin [-\]: Simba, who are you really?
CGBSpender [-\]: r8 r9 s9 q9 s7 s12 s11 t11 s10 usual
SimbaRules [1k\]: I'm Chris ^^ we played at the strong players thing recently on the floor, then you forgot you played me since your groups kinda died. ;)
bert [?\]: heh heh
cloudo [2d\]: muhaha
Filip41 [7k?\]: thats not very polite to point out :d
hiss [-\]: and then b tenuki?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Haha :) it was all in good fun, just a casual game. BGAAdmin's rating is better than mine on the list.
Lothus [1d?\]: simbarules are you 1 k in real life? :P
SimbaRules [1k\]: I don't think so.
TobyM [2d?\]: Cut at Q13 answered by P14
CGBSpender [-\]: yes, leaving a ko on the right for later
SimbaRules [1k\]: I kinda claimed to be 1d at the strong teaching thing, but probably stronger now.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Maybe 3d?
Kaboom [4k\]: b needs to protect the cut, r13 was a mistake
SimbaRules [1k\]: It's sorta hard to say.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I won 7 out of 8 games there, mostly against 2ds, and beat the 1-2d players mostly at my club.
CGBSpender [-\]: after w s13 t13 , the ko can be helpful in later stage of the game
SimbaRules [1k\]: So would guess strong 2d/weak 3d.
Plax [10k\]: well, go for it next year
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, ofc.
BGAadmin [-\]: In case anyone is wondering, today this accound is being weilded by Tim Hunt (2d BGA)
SimbaRules [1k\]: Been working hard for it :) .
SimbaRules [1k\]: Played for two and a half years now, wanting to win the title since I started.
Filip41 [7k?\]: so i wasnt playng for a few years. what is the difference now between KGS rating and EGF rating? they are not so equal right?
Prodigious [-\]: i've seen s12 t11 a lot
Prodigious [-\]: avoiding the possible ko
SimbaRules [1k\]: Andrew Simons (white here) was one of my first teachers. ^^
BGAadmin [-\]: I wonder where the Candidates will be this year?
BGAadmin [-\]: I mean next year.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I hope not Edinburgh :( .
SimbaRules [1k\]: Too far.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I qualified this year but too far.
Lothus [1d?\]: from british 1 d to 4 d is a long way
Nyanjilla [-\]: hey... Edinburgh is a nice place
SimbaRules [1k\]: That's true Lothus ^^ .
SimbaRules [1k\]: My strategy sucks since I've only played a couple of years so I just get into huge fights and kill them.
CGBSpender [-\]: then w is not 100% alve either, with t11, i think
BGAadmin [-\]: That was really good. After I lost horribly to Andrew Kay one morning, I had time to walk up Aruthur's seat to recover.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Hahaha.
Lothus [1d?\]: if you are young you can go to university and insetad of studing just do go problems for 4 years :P
BGAadmin [-\]: I think every tournament venue should come with a hill.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I started go in my 3rd year of university yeah ^^ .
SimbaRules [1k\]: Did 10,000 go problems in my first year.
Nyanjilla [-\]: that's kinda expensive now, Lothus
SimbaRules [1k\]: Since then only about 5,000 more :( .
Filip41 [7k?\]: that is a lot O_O
Lothus [1d?\]: really? so only me is so lazy
SimbaRules [1k\]: I enjoy the problems more than playing often ^^ .
Lothus [1d?\]: I did 50 problems in my whole life
CGBSpender [-\]: and T11 gives b s14 sente against right side, to jump to R17 easily ? so i'm not sure
SimbaRules [1k\]: Which means my reading is really good XD but my strategy sucks.
Prodigious [-\]: dunno, i think i've seen t11 more in pro games
Prodigious [-\]: but it's probably not that big of a deal
SimbaRules [1k\]: T11 is what Andrew prepared fwiw.
SimbaRules [1k\]: (Simons)
BGAadmin [-\]: Hopefully Guo can teach you strategy at the strong player training events.
Plax [10k\]: I started studying over 35 years ago, but gave up real fast
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, hope so! :)
CGBSpender [-\]: we'll see how it goes :) I'm quite surprised uberdude is taking so long to play the next move though
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, same.
clydesdale [3k\]: i'd read the entire elementary go series of books before i played my first game
BGAadmin [-\]: Who here will be coming to the London Open at the end of December?
cloudo [2d\]: could u give me a sequence how that tesuji in the corner works, simba? i guess i am too stupid :P
SimbaRules [1k\]: I might do, not sure.
SimbaRules [1k\]: It's a ko variation, cloudo./
Plax [10k\]: lots of interesting games going on today
Filip41 [7k?\]: i gave up on playing some time ago - there is no one to play with IRL. :/
cloudo [2d\]: oh, ko...
SimbaRules [1k\]: The R2 cut is used.
SimbaRules [1k\]: ^^
cloudo [2d\]: ok, i see
CGBSpender [-\]: yeah, corner has this s3 s2 t2 s4 t4 
qpqpqp [4k\]: uberdude used to play a lot on OGS... taking days to make a move
Lothus [1d?\]: I don't think he would want to play it, s4 seems to be enought
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes, it's aji keshi as mentioned, Lothus (S3, T2 double hane).
SimbaRules [1k\]: Uberdude used to own me on 9 stones all the time IRL lol.
SimbaRules [1k\]: When I started in 2011 he was going to the go club I went to :) .
BGAadmin [-\]: I wonder if AS has found a flaw in his prepared sequence in the last two weeks.
SimbaRules [1k\]: If so you'd think he'd have found a fix.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Rather than playing it up to here lol.
Lothus [1d?\]: I won 3 times with warfreak2 in even game \\o/ 
BGAadmin [-\]: True
SimbaRules [1k\]: Wow, nice.
Lothus [1d?\]: but I lost around 20-30 :P
Lothus [1d?\]: :))
SimbaRules [1k\]: He is extremely strong, I have a ton of respect for Warfy ^^ model my game off him recently.
backpack1 [3d\]: both of them are about egf 3dan, so it´s not that special ^^
SimbaRules [1k\]: I like to study his games.
]
;W[ql]
;B[pk]C[dongwei [2k\]: where is guojuan stable?
SimbaRules [1k\]: 11am, Dong.
dongwei [2k\]: thanks
BGAadmin [-\]: So, AS has not used 20 mins, and AK 11
Lothus [1d?\]: I won only because he played too fast and for fight
Lothus [1d?\]: I am much weaker
BGAadmin [-\]: s/not/now/
dongwei [2k\]: i like w
CGBSpender [-\]: oh
dongwei [2k\]: show te brve and strength
Plax [10k\]: r7 ?
dongwei [2k\]: brave
CGBSpender [-\]: r7 is bad
SimbaRules [1k\]: R7 leaves bad shape, Plax.
SimbaRules [1k\]: The push is nasty.
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew braveheart?
SimbaRules [1k\]: S7 is the correct local shape for white.
Plax [10k\]: right, s7 then ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes, or something more adventurous.
CGBSpender [-\]: r7 s5 and miai s4 / R9 S9 S10
goren2 [2k\]: b looks good.  lets see what w will play
Plax [10k\]: s13 possible here for white ?
dongwei [2k\]: b get the seti
Lothus [1d?\]: I agree, b looks great :))
dongwei [2k\]: then  very thick
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol, Seti :) black has aliens helping.
]
;W[rm]
;B[qk]
;W[rk]C[dongwei [2k\]: but
]
;B[rh]
;W[si]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Still exactly how he prepared it...
bert [?\]: he should put up a pic if he looks so great
SimbaRules [1k\]: Not sure why taking so long lol.
dongwei [2k\]: w have 3 conners
asakaraBTM [2d\]: black is way better here
SimbaRules [1k\]: W does not own the top right corner.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Asakara: I dunno, this is the precise opening to the stone that W prepared :) .
SimbaRules [1k\]: So I'm sure he thinks B not too good.
dongwei [2k\]: blancd
asakaraBTM [2d\]: black's infuence is better than white's overly small territory
dongwei [2k\]: blanced
BGAadmin [-\]: AK is now standing up!
zaboomafoo [2k\]: b will have to use the influence well
SimbaRules [1k\]: Only if B can use it.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes, indeed.
SimbaRules [1k\]: The Q13 cut is quite thin.
Lothus [1d?\]: AK\\o/
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol Lothus :) .
dongwei [2k\]: i willloksif iplay b
SimbaRules [1k\]: You have a crush on him? ;)
Lothus [1d?\]: what, he is my boyfriend
Lothus [1d?\]: :P
SimbaRules [1k\]: Oh wow, for real? :D Cool.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: this is even
]
;B[qn]C[dongwei [2k\]: i can not usethe wall
Lothus [1d?\]: yes, for real :P
copsewood: Used to play AK when we were both learning, but he got better much, much faster than me, and now I've no chance with 9 stones.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Ah wow :) cool, I always wondered why you seemed like a fangirl. XD
Chirp [5d\]: emarassingly real, you should see them together
SimbaRules [1k\]: I thought you just liked him :P .
SimbaRules [1k\]: Hahaha, aww, cute!
dongwei [2k\]:  only pplyer can handleb
dongwei [2k\]: b willbuild a great wall
Lothus [1d?\]: because I am his fangirl also 
asakaraBTM [2d\]: sweet potatoes
SimbaRules [1k\]: I think Andrew Simons prepared Q8 P7 as his next two moves.
Plax [10k\]: r6 also prevents the cut while attacking
shakti [-\]: is this normal? looks dubious
SimbaRules [1k\]: Not 100% sure I remember this bit, but that happened at some point.
dongwei [2k\]: for me w q8
dongwei [2k\]: try stop the wall build
BGAadmin [-\]: Q8 or Q7?
goren2 [2k\]: wq8, b seals in sente and plays like k10.  w game over
Plax [10k\]: q8 invites a hane 
SimbaRules [1k\]: Q8, then P7 after the B hane.
SimbaRules [1k\]: There's a lot of cutting aji.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Especially with Q13 also.
dongwei [2k\]: q8
CGBSpender [-\]: r7 could do it
SimbaRules [1k\]: W R7???
goren2 [2k\]: only move is q7
dongwei [2k\]: q8 is asemi attack
SimbaRules [1k\]: I think so too, and it's what he prepared I think.
CGBSpender [-\]: q7 is bad shape
shakti [-\]: w can tenuki also
SimbaRules [1k\]: Q8*
asakaraBTM [2d\]: this is a very bad situation for white
shakti [-\]: or not
Ukasuhs [5d\]: this is even
Ukasuhs [5d\]: still
shakti [-\]: just live
asakaraBTM [2d\]: Q8 is pretty useless too
asakaraBTM [2d\]: just making black strong
asakaraBTM [2d\]: and sealing himself in
Chirp [5d\]: relatively common situation
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya, not an uncommon opening
goren2 [2k\]: maybe s11
dongwei [2k\]: if possble not allow b build grare wall
zaboomafoo [2k\]: if tenuki, where?
asakaraBTM [2d\]: white has like 15 points and not in one territory
asakaraBTM [2d\]: that is pretty bad
CGBSpender [-\]: you can't tenuki this
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes but B is not very thick, Asakara.
shakti [-\]: ye, i saw
SimbaRules [1k\]: After W plays Q8 and P7.
SimbaRules [1k\]: There's a lot of aji.
asakaraBTM [2d\]: he is thick enough
asakaraBTM [2d\]: q8 and p7 are nothinbg
SimbaRules [1k\]: Sure, but W has points.
SimbaRules [1k\]: HAha.
asakaraBTM [2d\]: q8 p8 p7 o7 
shakti [-\]: s11 seems best
dongwei [2k\]: but it is licklly w can not stopgreatwall
SimbaRules [1k\]: S11? :S
SimbaRules [1k\]: Surely play Q8 first, or B just happily Q8's from W S11.
shakti [-\]: otherwise black gets some annoying sente moves there later
asakaraBTM [2d\]: white cannot allow black to play C14
SimbaRules [1k\]: I think in his prepared sequence he did show black C14.
CGBSpender [-\]: yes he can
SimbaRules [1k\]: And played a two-space high pincer.
asakaraBTM [2d\]: that is way too big
dongwei [2k\]: 8 isatry
dongwei [2k\]: q8 is a try
Plax [10k\]: is white alive if he tenukis ?
Lothus [1d?\]: maybe I will manage to cook my breakfast before AS will make a move
BGAadmin [-\]: AS is stareing at the Q8 area of the board
dongwei [2k\]: or q6?
BGAadmin [-\]: AS has used 30 mins. AK 13 mins.
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
toadwarble [8k\]: don't rush it you don't want it to be underdone
Filip41 [7k?\]: underdone?
toadwarble [8k\]: Lothus' b'fast
dongwei [2k\]: wq6 b qy wq8
RoundTuit [2k\]: depends if you want a rare victory......
thirdfogie [-\]: AS has a self-declared history of mistakes in time trouble :(
dongwei [2k\]: ifw can mpve to center it wiill e a success
asakaraBTM [2d\]: white just cannot push through and living in gote is so bad
BGAadmin [-\]: Like Takagawa in the 10-game matches with Go Seigen, so he is in good company ;-)
zaboomafoo [2k\]: so r7 lives but the corner suffers
zaboomafoo [2k\]: s11 lives better
BGAadmin [-\]: (Do I mean Takagawa?)
dongwei [2k\]: centre is the key now
shakti [-\]: s11 is correct yes
Chirp [5d\]: I'd play q8 first
thirdfogie [-\]: Which Andrew is supposed to be Honinbo Takagawa, 'cos those matches did not end well for him?
BGAadmin [-\]: AS, who gets into time trouble.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think the only match go seigen ever lost was against a motorcycle
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol Ukasuhs, ouch.
Plax [10k\]: he must be quite old by now
SimbaRules [1k\]: He is 99.
]
;W[pl]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: The motorcycle was just overplaying anyway.
thirdfogie [-\]: It was Fujisawa Hosai who enjoyed flirting with time trouble in the GSG matches
]
;B[ol]C[dongwei [2k\]: waa#
SimbaRules [1k\]: P7 ^^ .
BGAadmin [-\]: Thanks. Sorry, I should have remebered the right name.
dongwei [2k\]:  my moove work
goren2 [2k\]: go seiggen is basically playing a 1 point ko right now.  he's out of threats
dongwei [2k\]: p7
SimbaRules [1k\]: He still leads study sessions for professionals.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I wish my great grandad could do that.
goren2 [2k\]: right.  but his opponent, first encountered in the 7th seal, is one he cannot beat...
SimbaRules [1k\]: He's Go Seigen, they even named the game after him ;) .
SimbaRules [1k\]: He can do whatever he likes.
Lothus [1d?\]: i like Fujisawa Hosai games a lot, he was playing for fight
dongwei [2k\]: if q8 then p7 must follow otherwisr q7 is a fail if can not play p7
SimbaRules [1k\]: I'm a little bit puzzled as to why he's taking so long to play his prepared sequence.
dongwei [2k\]: w q7 b o8
dongwei [2k\]: b try to play thick here
Plax [10k\]: p7 is answered by a cut right ?
Lothus [1d?\]: to be sure it is working?
dongwei [2k\]: then mouse keep ste aswell
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lothus: That is what preparing beforehand is for!
BGAadmin [-\]: Also, I think AS just loves thinking about Go positions.
goren2 [2k\]: s6 now
dongwei [2k\]: b must be able to play c 14 or f 17 d10 c10 etc
Firzen [3d\]: BGAadmin, he probably likes it a bit too much
Plax [10k\]: the exchange s6 s5 hurts the corner
Ukasuhs [5d\]: the exchange of s6 s4 hurts the corner even more :)
Lothus [1d?\]: unfortunately for my breakfast, lunch and dinner AS lieks to think a lot
goren2 [2k\]: s6 s5 p8
goren2 [2k\]: p7 i mean
]
;W[rg]C[BGAadmin [-\]: Well, no-one predicted that!
dongwei [2k\]:  a try asking move
dongwei [2k\]: not good
Firzen [3d\]: he just wants to live immediately I guess
dongwei [2k\]: harm the up conner
Lothus [1d?\]: he wants to have an eye
dongwei [2k\]: no need
zaboomafoo [2k\]: I like this better than s11
Lothus [1d?\]: he needs two
dongwei [2k\]: s11  
dongwei [2k\]: will do
]
;B[sg]C[Lothus [1d?\]: will do in gote
dongwei [2k\]: w more difficult then b here
asakaraBTM [2d\]: like I said, this was never good situation for white
shakti [-\]: this only makes sense if he plans to tenuki now
Lothus [1d?\]: tenuki now? no way
Firzen [3d\]: shakti, no, there is a difference
dongwei [2k\]: forp player b isvery good
dongwei [2k\]: bot for k player not sure
shakti [-\]: giving points?
Firzen [3d\]: w can play s11 now and threaten to live immediately
Lothus [1d?\]: <gote3
shakti [-\]: s11 lived before too
Firzen [3d\]: he also threatens that
dongwei [2k\]: slive is urgent now task
dongwei [2k\]: alive
Firzen [3d\]: when he plays s11 immediately, but then b will play s14 instead of t13
Ukasuhs [5d\]: b would have played s14 anyway
Firzen [3d\]: in response to s11?
dongwei [2k\]: b  d 10 will build  A HUGE MOYO
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya, any other move does nothing but save 1 stone
TobyM [2d?\]: Yes, it hurts the upper corner
Firzen [3d\]: Ukasuhs, I don'T think b would answer just s11
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well, ya
FrenchDude [4d?\]: why not?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i just mean locally
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s14 is always the answer
Firzen [3d\]: sure
shakti [-\]: yes
Firzen [3d\]: but the order makes a difference
Firzen [3d\]: because it makes it harder for black to ignore s11
Firzen [3d\]: Wasn't there supposed to be commentary by guo juan?
dongwei [2k\]: IF W CAN ALIVE SEYE THE S 3 WORKS IF NOT IT WILL BE A BAD MOVE
Lothus [1d?\]: at 11 am
Lothus [1d?\]: so 3 minutes ago it was planned to be started
asakaraBTM [2d\]: 2 minutes past
asakaraBTM [2d\]: yeah
BGAadmin [-\]: Howeerm I ahve not seen Guo online yet.
Firzen [3d\]: dongwei, seeing how much you judge all the moves you should be able to tell if it lives, just saying
BGAadmin [-\]: However.
Filip41 [7k?\]: i think its all slow and not much worth since white is laready alive. oc i am a weak kyu, but i think a simple tenuki would give much bigger impact on the game than playing in right side
kayagsa [3d\]: what a sicho
]
;W[ri]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: if it wasnt alive it would be a pretty bad joseki
SiaBBo [3k\]: how is white alive without s11? o_O
]
;B[rf]C[Firzen [3d\]: Filip41, I agree that the moves are slow
Filip41 [7k?\]: well i was talking about black. s11 is important 
Firzen [3d\]: but definitely worth a lot
Firzen [3d\]: Filip41, it's not about killing, it's about getting profit while threatening to kill
SiaBBo [3k\]: well white has sente now
dongwei [2k\]: HERE IS JUANS TABLE? WHAT IS THE TABLE NAME?
Firzen [3d\]: stop it with the capslock
TobyM [2d?\]: The exchange S13 T13 a loss for white, surely
Lothus [1d?\]: i prefere black!
Firzen [3d\]: TobyM, 1 point loss to get sente seems fair enough
asakaraBTM [2d\]: I bet
Eliza [3k\]: well..... you would, Lothus..... :)
Filip41 [7k?\]: but how mucha exactly can you push until your enemy decides its all bs, and its time to swtich places. left side is a huge potential profit for both now. especially for black
Lothus [1d?\]: not only because he is handsome and great!
dongwei [2k\]: it lost more than 5 points?
BGAadmin [-\]: But, B now has some eye-shape on his group, and we said before that W wanted to aim at the cutting aji.
Lothus [1d?\]: but I prefere b's position on  board
]
;W[rd]C[dongwei [2k\]: see
Firzen [3d\]: Filip, well as long as your moves threaten to kill or damage the group severely your opponent will respond
dongwei [2k\]: for me d 10 is bigger
Ukasuhs [5d\]: w doesnt w b getting r17 in sente
Filip41 [7k?\]: of course. i only ask the question of how to estimate what is "severe" and what is not. i cant judge that. 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: doesnt want*
asakaraBTM [2d\]: t10 t9 o14 
BGAadmin [-\]: If the W corner is completely alive, B acnnot threaten it to expan the moyo.
Firzen [3d\]: Filip41, that's what go ultimately comes down to, is it bigger to play on here or play somewhere else, how much is the tenuki move I want to play worth compared to what I will lose if I tenuki
Hobbes [1k\]: d14 like a boss?
asakaraBTM [2d\]: or just plain o14
dongwei [2k\]: moyo still big
goren2 [2k\]: i'm sure p15 threatens something
Ukasuhs [5d\]: maybe b will d10
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but c14 is normal
asakaraBTM [2d\]: o14's follow up is n16
dongwei [2k\]: there is a cut on q 13
backpack1 [3d\]: i like d14 
goren2 [2k\]: maybe m17?
Lothus [1d?\]: C 14 looks pl
Lothus [1d?\]: ok
Firzen [3d\]: c14 not d14?
dongwei [2k\]: other wise w will not play s16
martin3141 [-\]: i think s4 is sente against s9-group
Ukasuhs [5d\]: its not :(
Firzen [3d\]: nope, that shape is just alive
martin3141 [-\]: i wonder, s4 - tenuki - t10
dongwei [2k\]: the follow move for w is p 14
Firzen [3d\]: because of the m2 attachment
asakaraBTM [2d\]: o14 
dongwei [2k\]: p14 k16v build a moyo as well
Ukasuhs [5d\]: at this point b has to play on the left
dongwei [2k\]: ameazing 
Filip41 [7k?\]: martin - t10, t9. easy response making two eyes
dongwei [2k\]:  AS is great
Firzen [3d\]: I wouldn't be surprised to see d13 or c13 from AK
dongwei [2k\]: have many skills
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh whatit
Filip41 [7k?\]: not t9
Ukasuhs [5d\]: t10 r7
Filip41 [7k?\]: yup
Ukasuhs [5d\]: or
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya
]
;B[nk]C[zaboomafoo [2k\]: wow
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i'd slam d10
shakti [-\]: w actually came out ahead here
Firzen [3d\]: that might be overconfident
dongwei [2k\]: the cut is real so b defence
asakaraBTM [2d\]: if you play this honte O14 way better
Filip41 [7k?\]: black really like this place
dongwei [2k\]: must p14
dongwei [2k\]: then d10
Firzen [3d\]: asakaraBTM, why?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: just d10 >.>
Ukasuhs [5d\]: definitely dont need to peep
dongwei [2k\]: but alive?
asakaraBTM [2d\]: the follow up to build the moyo is bigger?
dongwei [2k\]: Ak try kill?
dongwei [2k\]: if not he will not play  o10
Firzen [3d\]: asakara, build a moyo where with the cuts still quite open around p7?
gobuk: w need d10
martin3141 [-\]: right, s4 is bad :(
asakaraBTM [2d\]: well it covers the q13 cut and then theres only one cut leftt?
asakaraBTM [2d\]: looks to me it is fairly easy to handle too
BGAadmin [-\]: So, AK has used 20 mins, and AS has used 50 mins.
Firzen [3d\]: martin, I think s5 might work well to get some serious endgame profit
martin3141 [-\]: yes, probably
Filip41 [7k?\]: i kinda dont understand black here. globally this is a very defensive move. and yet he has nothing to defend yet. no territory, just moyo and some prospects on central part of the board >_>
dongwei [2k\]: the thicness ofb is a head ace forw
TobyM [2d?\]: The Q13 cut does not work, it is ansered by P14
asakaraBTM [2d\]: looks way too cramped
Filip41 [7k?\]: should he play more freely? try to gain momentum?
Firzen [3d\]: Filip, I think this move falls under overconfidence to be honest
Firzen [3d\]: but he likes to fight, so he's probably happy to get a stable position to attack from/with
dongwei [2k\]: ak must very strong he plase 
bert [?\]: the thickness moves are most abstract
dongwei [2k\]: he played very solid
backpack1 [3d\]: too solid
Firzen [3d\]: martin, the best move locally in the lower right might be n2 or m2
dongwei [2k\]: that because he is strong 
Firzen [3d\]: but definitely too small/slow
BGAadmin [-\]: By the way Guo Juan is in Canada at the moment, where it is still very early in the morning, so we must forgive here if she is a bit late.
Firzen [3d\]: oh, wait, nm, it's sente to kill xD
asakaraBTM [2d\]: a pro should keep her promise
dongwei [2k\]: where is juan s table?
bert [?\]: value of the territorial or attacking move is plainly visible, value of thickness is much less so and as pros teach us, we tend to underestimate it
AppleEye [1d\]: I thought black should play R9 before R13. Couldn't white just solidly extend at R9 instead of R8?
Firzen [3d\]: bert, I would say misjudge
Firzen [3d\]: I don't think there is a tendency to undervalue it
bert [?\]: oh, but there is
Plax [10k\]: the more I look at o9 the more I like it
dongwei [2k\]: if  w not answer there is som risk b can double attack
]
;W[dj]C[dongwei [2k\]: b t8
Firzen [3d\]: there we go
Ukasuhs [5d\]: t8 t7 >.<
dongwei [2k\]: w  s6  
dongwei [2k\]: b s 5
dongwei [2k\]: the the w conner is underattackas well
dongwei [2k\]: b will atack 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: t8 t7 is big aji keshi
Firzen [3d\]: Ukasuhs, when?
Firzen [3d\]: Oh, I guess it's the dongwei guy talking
dongwei [2k\]: sorry
]
;B[qm]C[dongwei [2k\]: if not attacking the o9  willnot play
dongwei [2k\]: so
Zahlman [1k\]: this is also aji keshi I suppose? :)
dongwei [2k\]: attack
Firzen [3d\]: what is he reading?
dongwei [2k\]: i  have a feeling#
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i guess b wants to strengthen his outside here
BGAadmin [-\]: Probably hoping to weaken the corner while W lives.
Zahlman [1k\]: is s6 possible? or does w have to defend the shape?
Firzen [3d\]: sure, but this is an odd move to do that unless he wants to fix the p7 hane in sente
BGAadmin [-\]: Surely B gets at least S5 in sente.
Firzen [3d\]: but that's quite slow and doesn'T seem severe
Firzen [3d\]: BGAadmin, sure, but he would have gotten that anyway
papalouw [2d\]: is it sente at all?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: maybe w has to t10 O.o
Chirp [5d\]: yes
martin3141 [-\]: s8 for white
BGAadmin [-\]: Is it crazy for W to tenuki? Make O9 a wasted move?
Chirp [5d\]: s6 
Firzen [3d\]: w can t8
Ukasuhs [5d\]: oh, or s8, ya
asakaraBTM [2d\]: w tenuki = game over
Firzen [3d\]: probably not the best
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes. OK. I am crazy.
Plax [10k\]: simply t10 ?
Chirp [5d\]: s8 works also#
dongwei [2k\]: dont overlook the strength of AK
Prodigious [-\]: s8 would seem most appropriate
kayagsa [3d\]: t10 then b get kiki
Chirp [5d\]: not a matter of overlooking it, he just hasn't shown it yet
Ukasuhs [5d\]: no, s8 seems no good
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s8 s4
kayagsa [3d\]: maybe s5 kiki
Ukasuhs [5d\]: is a problem
BGAadmin [-\]: It is not just about W living. It is about living with minimum damage to the corner.
redEars [4d\]: s5 shouldn't b an issue to w's corner
kayagsa [3d\]: ja
Prodigious [-\]: but doesn't b have s4 even if w answers with some other move?
kayagsa [3d\]: can s3?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: if w s10, b s4 isnt sente on right side group
Zahlman [1k\]: indeed
Chirp [5d\]: he has at least s5 no matter what
Chirp [5d\]: which is painful enough
redEars [4d\]: s8 s5 s3 t7 is ok for w
Firzen [3d\]: s5 and s4 should both be sente
Zahlman [1k\]: so, it's a question of damage relative to what s4 does normally :)
zaboomafoo [2k\]: t10 seems the way to go
shakti [-\]: s3 is strongest resistance
kmlck [1d\]: t10 s5 s3 t8 s8 t7 
Prodigious [-\]: ah yea, s4 is not sente against t10
kmlck [1d\]: s5 is though
dongwei [2k\]: see you i need something toeat----------
Prodigious [-\]: sure
BGAadmin [-\]: T10, T8, ...
redEars [4d\]: s8 s5 s3 t7 is ok for w
Firzen [3d\]: t10 t8 s8 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: not t7, always t10 first
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes, and B gets S5.
redEars [4d\]: imo, ultimately this is waste of ko threat 
Hobbes [1k\]: maybe guo is waiting for more moves to comment?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: or, if you want to s5, maybe do s4 first
Firzen [3d\]: BGAadmin, sure we already established that black gets that either way
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s3*
BGAadmin [-\]: AS has now used 1 hours.
shakti [-\]: w s3 works?
martin3141 [-\]: so white probably has to play s10, as painful as that is
shakti [-\]: or is there counter?
Firzen [3d\]: Okay, I get why r7 now
Firzen [3d\]: damn you AK, outreading me
Zahlman [1k\]: you mean t10 surely?
redEars [4d\]: i am curious, why has UK not produced a very strong go player like other major euro countries? 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think t10 is the only choice
shakti [-\]: ah, not work
redEars [4d\]: is go not as played there?
Zahlman [1k\]: I think it's partly that strong continental euro players can more easily travel to the adjacent countries
Filip41 [7k?\]: define "strong" go player.
Filip41 [7k?\]: and moreover:
Filip41 [7k?\]: what would be the purpose, what IS the purpose of being a strong go player.
BGAadmin [-\]: Matthew Macfadyen won the European Congress 4 times in the 1980s
Filip41 [7k?\]: its about having fun. 
Filip41 [7k?\]: all of this
Ukasuhs [5d\]: for a lot of people its about money >.>
Zahlman [1k\]: that is a fine philosophical standpoint to have, but not one that is really relevant to the discussion
copsewood: No money in UK go game !
redEars [4d\]: i'm just curious as to the state of go culture in the countries
Hobbes [1k\]: I think redears question is interesting
bert [?\]: good, good
Zahlman [1k\]: for these purposes, 'it would be good to have more strong players' is taken as axiomatic
redEars [4d\]: for instance, i'm very impressed by the tournament games in the russia tournament
Filip41 [7k?\]: well ok. but then again, i think producing is not a good choice of words.
zaboomafoo [2k\]: s6 may be better than t10
Firzen [3d\]: I think it's fair to consider AK quite strong
shakti [-\]: russia strongest outside of asia
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s6 b can s4
chute [1k\]: i wonder, whether s6 is aji-keshi
Firzen [3d\]: but I guess we are talking about 6d+ level
Lothus [1d?\]: Russia is different story, they have a lot of strong players 5d-7d and even pros
Zahlman [1k\]: it carries a certain connotation, yeah, filip.
Zahlman [1k\]: but hard to find a better word :)
Hobbes [1k\]: russia is just by brute population count
AppleEye [1d\]: I think white should play S8. S5 is sente either way
Hobbes [1k\]: but.... france?
Zahlman [1k\]: hobbes, that can't be the whole story
copsewood: Chess is also more popular in Russia than UK per head of population.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but s4 isnt sente either way >.<
Zahlman [1k\]: or else we would have plenty of strong players from india as well
Filip41 [7k?\]: yeah. i can only relate to polish scene of go, (and it is a painfull view to see, really)
Firzen [3d\]: AppleEye, S4 is sente after s8
AppleEye [1d\]: Oh I see!
Lothus [1d?\]: Ak \\o/
Hobbes [1k\]: or Romania?
bert [?\]: i think s8 s5 s6 s3 s2 t2 is unavoidable
redEars [4d\]: even in China, the number of people who have socioeconomic luxury of playing go is very few. it has to do with culture and exposure
Hobbes [1k\]: not big population.....
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s8 s4
blibaboob: or czech
dongwei [2k\]: need some gana people
clydesdale [3k\]: chess was a state sponored sport in Russia under communism
Lothus [1d?\]: polish go scene makes poles don't want to play as poles
Hobbes [1k\]: and↨not very rich country as well
Zahlman [1k\]: lothus, why is that?
Filip41 [7k?\]: Lothus - yup. 
Firzen [3d\]: bert? why?
blibaboob: firzen? why?
Firzen [3d\]: starting with s8 seems odd
bert [?\]: ukasuhs has a point there, so it needs to be t10 
Plax [10k\]: q7 is out of the question here ?
redEars [4d\]: so yeah, going back to my question, i'm just curious why britain hasn't had let's say a KGS 7d arise, such as france, spain, etc. - serious question and don't mean to offend anyone
Lothus [1d?\]: for example, my situation from last year, I didn't play often and when I went to tournament abroad AK and some other players sugegsted that I should have higher rank to not be bored. After tournament polish go association demanded deleting my results and my oponnents to reset me to my previous rank 
Firzen [3d\]: Play, white will die locally with q7 and probably can'T get out
zaboomafoo [2k\]: s6 s4 s3? what am I missing?
Zahlman [1k\]: oh :(
shakti [-\]: 7d are so rare we can almost say it's luck
shakti [-\]: in those countries
bert [?\]: lol lothus, really poles did that?
Chirp [5d\]: well, UK has shitty go outreach
CGBSpender [-\]: ....
Chirp [5d\]: it doesn't help
Lothus [1d?\]: it was really strange and rude, next person from managment of pga offended me, and made many players think that i cheated to get higher rank
dongwei [2k\]: they key is the conner is not settle aswell
Hobbes [1k\]: if u think that a lot of asian that probably could know the game lives in london....
Firzen [3d\]: hm
Zahlman [1k\]: they don't want other players to get the idea that they should leave the country and play tournaments abroad to get strong ;)
Lothus [1d?\]: it stoped after I won with some polish players year after
Hobbes [1k\]: it's even stranger
dongwei [2k\]: w s6 b s5 w t6 b s3
Firzen [3d\]: zaboomafoo, what if s6,s5?
Lothus [1d?\]: but it was very sad to hear all these gossips
Zahlman [1k\]: I think go outreach is pretty terrible in canada too
copsewood: No idea how anyone could imagine you could cheat in go tournament games Lothus.
thirdfogie [-\]: redEars: Here in UK, the most intelligent young people think they can more money easily by working as financiers or lawyers.  And they plan to retire at age 35.  That is one reason why we are relatively weak at Go and Chess compared to France, Germany and Holland.  And we have a long tradition of anti-intellectualism dating from the time when we had an empire to run.  Prediction is hard, especially the future, especially now that the Internet and computers are changing everything.
Zahlman [1k\]: even if you go to chinatown in toronto, you won't see go, but xiangqi
Filip41 [7k?\]: i dont really understand why you even listen to those Lothus. We both know how toxic is the enviroment in polish go community. 
Alligato [1d\]: T10 to live with minmum sideeffect to the corner
dongwei [2k\]: science is important
zaboomafoo [2k\]: s5 still works if t10 though
Lothus [1d?\]: so I resigned from being a member, and they decided that I shouldnt get help in going to European Go Pair Championships ( I am a champion this eyar)
dongwei [2k\]: t10
clydesdale [3k\]: i think t10 too
Firzen [3d\]: s5 always works
dongwei [2k\]: thm b t8
Chirp [5d\]: more concretely, I don't think the BGA has a coherent effort to promote the game to young people
dongwei [2k\]: w t10 b t18
BGAadmin [-\]: Right, a lot of UK players get strong at university, then go and get a busy or interesting job, and have less time for go.
martin3141 [-\]: if white plays t10, black will not get both s5 and q7 in sente
Chirp [5d\]: so get them during middle school
Zahlman [1k\]: canadian go association seems mostly to just borrow things from american go association...
CGBSpender [-\]: t18 is powerful indeed
Hobbes [1k\]: english are workholic
Firzen [3d\]: t18?
Zahlman [1k\]: t18? what?
CGBSpender [-\]: dongwei [2k\]: w t10 b t18
Firzen [3d\]: just ignore him
Zahlman [1k\]: haha... means t8 I'm sure
SiaBBo [3k\]: t18 is super cool tesuji in this situation
SiaBBo [3k\]: just watch it
Alligato [1d\]: t10, t8, S8
Zahlman [1k\]: though that doesn't seem to work
dongwei [2k\]: b t8
Zahlman [1k\]: yeah, just s8
Filip41 [7k?\]: so hows the time? i bet i could go and s]
;W[rq]C[Firzen [3d\]: WHAT?
Zahlman [1k\]: wow
kayagsa [3d\]: i thought s3
Lothus [1d?\]: hm, interetsing
dongwei [2k\]: itat is as s plan
archThus [4d\]: ?!
AppleEye [1d\]: nice
Filip41 [7k?\]: Lothus - why do you bother playing in those championships. You msut realize you are repsenting poland and thus PGA. And they are not doing you a favor, like - ever again. So jsut stop playing competetively. Just have fun.
kayagsa [3d\]: maybe t7 kiki?
Hobbes [1k\]: now I DO REALLY miss them:-))
Zahlman [1k\]: surely this hopes to keep the side alive by using the threat to connect
bert [?\]: lothus, i've been to pair go chpshp in japan, just to quarell with my partner there, perhaps it is quite ok if you get spared of that
archThus [4d\]: oh
Muttley [2k\]: connect by mj, save the corner save the world
archThus [4d\]: t6 
oasthouse [-\]: OK, this is better order, but t6 still in mind
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh and my keyboard sucks. sorry for typos
Firzen [3d\]: t6 should kill
dongwei [2k\]: avold 4 yes for two group
dongwei [2k\]: eyes
Firzen [3d\]: oh
Zahlman [1k\]: is t6 really better than just s6?
dongwei [2k\]: so tha is good
Firzen [3d\]: wow, w is alive
Muttley [2k\]: that's it Filip, blame the keyboard
kayagsa [3d\]: he said t7 sente
Lothus [1d?\]: filip I like to play this game, being a champion is also fun, but maybe not at this country
dongwei [2k\]: grate
shakti [-\]: so he did s3 afterall
dongwei [2k\]: grate\]
Filip41 [7k?\]: Muttley - you saw what i did there, right? :d 
Muttley [2k\]: :))
dongwei [2k\]: ameazing
Muttley [2k\]: Oh my god they killed Keyboard!
dongwei [2k\]: move
medical [2k\]: s6 kills, no ?
Firzen [3d\]: s6 t7
dongwei [2k\]: a very precisely
Lothus [1d?\]: anyway, I succesfully annoyed this unkind person by winning with him at these championships ;)
bert [?\]: interesting
kayagsa [3d\]: i said s3...
Hobbes [1k\]: Stop.talcking.about.keyboards.please
Zahlman [1k\]: s6 won't kill
]
;B[rp]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: i just cant contain myself and ask who are we talking about :D
Muttley [2k\]: and there, perhaps, Lothus, you can let it go :)
Zahlman [1k\]: after t6, b would eventually have to take gote to avoid a connection, or else w gets t10
BGAadmin [-\]: Surely T10 lives now?
archThus [4d\]: thats still pretty painful for w
dongwei [2k\]: then w success
Muttley [2k\]: no
Lothus [1d?\]: I think I can go back to PGA only for winning with him again and then leave
Filip41 [7k?\]: can our gracious players turn their attention to another part of the board perhaps?
Muttley [2k\]: T10 dies to s8
redEars [4d\]: anyways, in hindsight, these moves all should have been saved by b (endgame/waste of ko threats)
Muttley [2k\]: but I'm terrible at tsumego so perhaps it is alive
Alligato [1d\]: why not s6?
Muttley [2k\]: dead
Muttley [2k\]: alive
bert [?\]: i mean w s3, i wonder whether this is really the sequence simons prepared in advance
Muttley [2k\]: dead
Muttley [2k\]: alive
dongwei [2k\]: alive
Muttley [2k\]: dead.
Zahlman [1k\]: lol
woidler [4k?\]: ko!
donner [1k\]: ko
dongwei [2k\]: w can not afford die
Muttley [2k\]: It is so important to be decisive, you know
Zahlman [1k\]: there is nowhere to make a ko?
oasthouse [-\]: if b had played t6 then what was the answer?
woidler [4k?\]: seki, then!
redEars [4d\]: BigDoug[-\]: Please write more than one word per line.
medical [2k\]: w plays tengen, sacrifices the group and owns the rest of the board
Muttley [2k\]: thank you, redEars :)
Muttley [2k\]: I'll ban myself shortly
SiaBBo [3k\]: t10 just lives? so what if b s8? then w t8 and it's alive no? s10 and t9 are eyes
oasthouse [-\]: t10 lives, but b gets t4 in sente
Firzen [3d\]: hm
BGAadmin [-\]: T4 is sente is not as good as S5 in sente was.
Firzen [3d\]: r7 seems like a waste now
Firzen [3d\]: should have been s5 I guess
BGAadmin [-\]: Why didn't B play S5?
Muttley [2k\]: T10 is alive!   If S8 by black, white captures and T9 is the second eye!
dongwei [2k\]: when the game end?
Zahlman [1k\]: taking t4 sente gives up the option of t3 in yose
Firzen [3d\]: BGAadmin, I think AK missed that s3 works
SiaBBo [3k\]: as i said muttley
Muttley [2k\]: I'm good at this.
Firzen [3d\]: if it doesn't r7 is slightly better, because it helps to contain white
zaboomafoo [2k\]: how much time has w used?
SiaBBo [3k\]: t10 gote life but there's no other option, white still got d10
AppleEye [1d\]: Uberdude really wants to tenuki! :P
oasthouse [-\]: b will get m2 in sente
redEars [4d\]: if you go back 4 moves, this result looks pretty bad for b actually
redEars [4d\]: w will now get s8 (allows for q7), and also b loses s3 turn
Zahlman [1k\]: what if the whole thing was just to run down w's clock? :)
wobbledy: b succeeded in making w waste about half an hour
Alligato [1d\]: black is fine whatever, but missed a chance here
bert [?\]: what chance?
Firzen [3d\]: to s5 instead of r7
dongwei [2k\]: has guo juan turned up now?
clydesdale [3k\]: isnt s4 the wast of a good ko threat?
BGAadmin [-\]: W (AS) has used 1:24, B (AK) has used 0:24.
Muttley [2k\]: what is the line that lives with T10 T8?
]
;W[rn]C[Firzen [3d\]: huh?
Muttley [2k\]: oh
redEars [4d\]: b lost 3 or more ko threats, and maybe more than two end game points
toadwarble [8k\]: No sign of G-J
Firzen [3d\]: b should just tenuki now
oasthouse [-\]: what about t6 instead of s4?
]
;B[sq]C[dongwei [2k\]: may still sleep?
Firzen [3d\]: AK in burstfire mode
martin3141 [-\]: I think black is rushing things
bert [?\]: t6 kills, no?
redEars [4d\]: can't understand s6 over s8... now t3 t2 t5 has some annoyances
Backflash [6k?\]: AK doesnt ahve burst fire mode
Firzen [3d\]: bert, no
dongwei [2k\]: G_J may still sleep
AppleEye [1d\]: S6 takes a liberty
Ukasuhs [5d\]: t3 t2 t4 was sente on right side anyways
AppleEye [1d\]: then w has a cut
Firzen [3d\]: there isn't really a cut
]
;W[sr]C[Firzen [3d\]: definitely not a cut worth dying for
rats [2d?\]: w side group alive
]
;B[sp]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: now s8
Firzen [3d\]: man, so many people from the old china group
bert [?\]: so, now t6 kills, no?
rats [2d?\]: yes, need to add a move now
Firzen [3d\]: probably
oasthouse [-\]: s8 now and b can choose s2 or m2
Zahlman [1k\]: s1 t6 t10, how is b killing?
Muttley [2k\]: is white still alive?
SiaBBo [3k\]: t6 t10
rats [2d?\]: s1, t10 kills
AppleEye [1d\]: I think w wants Q7 now?
SiaBBo [3k\]: t10 s6
SiaBBo [3k\]: t6 i mean
rats [2d?\]: t10 t6 t8 of course
Firzen [3d\]: then t8
Ukasuhs [5d\]: if w doesnt live, then b t6 or t10 kill the group
SiaBBo [3k\]: oh nevermind, 
Firzen [3d\]: or t6
Firzen [3d\]: miai
SiaBBo [3k\]: you dont even need to t8 cuz then t12 is atari
Firzen [3d\]: you still need to t8
Firzen [3d\]: but really if it's dead it doesn't matter too much
Zahlman [1k\]: cute tsumego
SiaBBo [3k\]: so basically white has to spend a move there now
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya
patrickn [2k\]: w fine just has to play two gote moves
Ukasuhs [5d\]: and id guess its s8
zaboomafoo [2k\]: this tsumego has been the entire game basically
Backflash [6k?\]: he might not want to live, and tenuki
Zahlman [1k\]: so, t10 s2 s1 t1, w won't have a proper ko threat?
rats [2d?\]: i would s8
Backflash [6k?\]: power of free will
okiol [1d\]: just has to play gote moves.. sounds like miai :)
Ukasuhs [5d\]: on the bottom, w has s2 or m2 to live
oasthouse [-\]: I think w did OK here, because when the dust settles there will be aji at p7
Zahlman [1k\]: life on side, ko in corner is better than life in corner, dead side
rats [2d?\]: no need ko to live on the bottom
Alligato [1d\]: w R12 invading was too early, simialar to the first game
rats [2d?\]: black s2, white can r2, then play m2 and cross cut there
SimbaRules [1k\]: The bottom is alive since W can still play M2.
patrickn [2k\]: i think b will do m2 follow up 
blibaboob: not dead better than dead
Ukasuhs [5d\]: r12 was fine
Ukasuhs [5d\]: common opening
patrickn [2k\]: after w makes side live
AppleEye [1d\]: No, R12 is a pro 'refutation' of black's opening
Zahlman [1k\]: rats, oho
Alligato [1d\]: R11 better wedge at Q11
AppleEye [1d\]: R11 is a pro move :)
Ukasuhs [5d\]: the wedge is an overplay
spider451 [2d\]: cant help liking black's outside
Ukasuhs [5d\]: you dont have both ladders
rats [2d?\]: people say always wedge, but sometimes it's simply overplay
AppleEye [1d\]: N6 is a cute move
AppleEye [1d\]: before R12
okiol [1d\]: always overplay!
AppleEye [1d\]: Then you do have both ladders :)
Alligato [1d\]: if you cant wedge, then better not invade
SiaBBo [3k\]: white is thinking a lot
AppleEye [1d\]: no surprises there
Zahlman [1k\]: is w planning to spend the rest of the game in byoyomi?
Alligato [1d\]: ladder is not absolutely needed for wedge
patrickn [2k\]: is there a blitz go championship?
TheDuke [2d?\]: almost tempted to just tenuki.  if black kills, white gets two moves on the outside.
Backflash [6k?\]: yea, in korea they made pros play 30 sec per move
rats [2d?\]: lol
rats [2d?\]: that would be unwise
Chirp [5d\]: if b kills, w wasted 11 moves
Alligato [1d\]: so which move is not pros in this game?
BGAadmin [-\]: There is a British Lighning tournament on the Friday evening of the British Go Congress.
patrickn [2k\]: oh nice ty
oasthouse [-\]: tenuki not possible
oasthouse [-\]: too big :)
BGAadmin [-\]: Last years was won by Nick Kremple, who is another famously slow player. It was thought  that playing lots of moves in Byo Yomi was good practice.
SiaBBo [3k\]: it's like 50 points
BGAadmin [-\]: I think AS is lookign at Q7
Chirp [5d\]: then you have people like cheater
patrickn [2k\]: what is the time per move in that?
Chirp [5d\]: who play their european championship games in blitz
rats [2d?\]: there was a british champ who liked to play random-like openings
BGAadmin [-\]: Britis lightning is something like 7minutes sudden death.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Matthew Macfadyen.
Alligato [1d\]: what was S13 for?
patrickn [2k\]: oh wow
rats [2d?\]: yeah
Ukasuhs [5d\]: to make s11 sente
Plax [10k\]: Mattew is still sort of the champ 
SimbaRules [1k\]: No he isn't.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Andrew Kay (black here) is the champion.
Chirp [5d\]: actually it's quite useless
SimbaRules [1k\]: This will be 2nd year if he wins this game.
okiol [1d\]: what's the difference between being sort of the champ and the actual champ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: One is nonsense, lol.
Plax [10k\]: hm, Matthew won a bit more titles
ThunderGod [6d\]: they play slow but the quality of the game not that high(for some unknow reason)
Chirp [5d\]: well, they're not exactly top players
BGAadmin [-\]: Andrew Kay never defeated Matthew M in the championship
SimbaRules [1k\]: That's like saying Steve Davis is sort of the world champion.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Of snooker.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Since he won a lot of titles.
Plax [10k\]: he is :-)
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol.
Backflash [6k?\]: i have a silly question, why is it British go champ and not UK? Only brits play go?
Plax [10k\]: at least in my opinion
SimbaRules [1k\]: Ireland/Scotland have their own championships.
BGAadmin [-\]: Because the organisation is called the British Go Association.
okiol [1d\]: why not whole europe or whole world, backflash?
SimbaRules [1k\]: (I forget the exact UK vs Britain distinction);.
AppleEye [1d\]: Scotland falls within Britain
Chirp [5d\]: you're confusing it with UK vs England distinction
meuns [1d\]: b won ?
patrickn [2k\]: people in scotland might debate that in 2014
AppleEye [1d\]: B won the first game
SimbaRules [1k\]: Not yet I don't think.
Backflash [6k?\]: it's one country in international eyes, why would you limit yourselves?
TobyM [2d?\]: The correct title is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
meuns [1d\]: very bad position for w here
SimbaRules [1k\]: What time do the players have left?
AppleEye [1d\]: I like w better in this one
BGAadmin [-\]: It is terribly complex. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles
okiol [1d\]: you like w better?
meuns [1d\]: living with 2 points every wheer
meuns [1d\]: tones of threats
SimbaRules [1k\]: All the 2-5k people on KGS beat me playing like white :( .
AppleEye [1d\]: B has no points
BGAadmin [-\]: AK has used 0:25. AS has used 1:38
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, as Apple says.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Cool, ty.
Plax [10k\]: eh, black has potential points 
okiol [1d\]: w has like 24 points?
SimbaRules [1k\]: They're only potential until white lives in them. ;)
AppleEye [1d\]: Plus komi
meuns [1d\]: 24 ?
SirEttin [1d\]: hows matthewcdoing?
meuns [1d\]: optimistic
patrickn [2k\]: 1h 38 minutes already?
Plax [10k\]: also, black has already captures a stone
]
;W[om]C[patrickn [2k\]: wow
okiol [1d\]: 24+komi seems very realistic
Firzen [3d\]: I like this move
Chirp [5d\]: I don't
meuns [1d\]: fighting spirit
Chirp [5d\]: it only adds black stones to the outside
Chirp [5d\]: it changes nothing to the problem
AppleEye [1d\]: But then W lives in sente
okiol [1d\]: 15 top right, 4 to the right, 4 bottom right
SimbaRules [1k\]: Agreed, I like this for W.
meuns [1d\]: q7 not forced
SimbaRules [1k\]: Means he can get S5 in.
Chirp [5d\]: p7 o7 
okiol [1d\]: something like that
Chirp [5d\]: no need to q7 
Plax [10k\]: q7 s8 o7 ?
AppleEye [1d\]: then there's a cut
Chirp [5d\]: so w still has to add a move
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes but then P6.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And either you get cut at O4, or W can play R5.
shakti [-\]: w overthinks the situation
SimbaRules [1k\]: And then side is alive.
meuns [1d\]: no
]
;B[nm]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: P6 ^^ .
BGAadmin [-\]: AK banged that move down.
Chirp [5d\]: how often has AS won against AK ?
Backflash [6k?\]: did it chip a stone a bit?
Plax [10k\]: the stones are not made from glass this time I hope
FrenchDude [4d?\]: AS will be low on time when the real fighting starts...
Alligato [1d\]: is this not real
Alligato [1d\]: I think it kill the game
okiol [1d\]: how low on time can you be, really? 180 minutes... holy macarone, who thinks that long?
AppleEye [1d\]: Uberdude!
Backflash [6k?\]: last year they did
SimbaRules [1k\]: Some moves even on KGS I spent 7-8 minutes on.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Need to read L+D and such.
Backflash [6k?\]: it was a loooooooong game
BGAadmin [-\]: AK has won 7 times, AS has won 4 times, in the past.
Chirp [5d\]: european go congress is 2:30 per player
BGAadmin [-\]: (including last week, based on EGD.)
Chirp [5d\]: hm, less clear-cut than I thought
Plax [10k\]: I think that black's group is alive by now
okiol [1d\]: i have spent so long time on moves that my account looks like it's sleeping, but i have never played anything close to 180 minutes
okiol [1d\]: black's group alive?
Plax [10k\]: eh, whites
Alligato [1d\]: looks one more for AK
Chirp [5d\]: so white will realize he cannot get out of this with sente and add a move
AppleEye [1d\]: I still prefer white
Backflash [6k?\]: even if  lives everywhere now, that wall is jsut too big
backpack1 [3d\]: w got d10 so its alright
Chirp [5d\]: I think b will win easily
Plax [10k\]: oh no, can't watch all those interesting games at the same time
BGAadmin [-\]: RIght, Chirp, The wall is great, but B has to make use of it before the game is won.
]
;W[on]C[Chirp [5d\]: it's not like AK isn't a bloodthirsty berserker , he's used to using walls
Chirp [5d\]: tenuki now
Alligato [1d\]: b just need to keep the game simple
sedvu: cant tenuki yet
Alligato [1d\]: no, secure the victory here
Plax [10k\]: q7 atari captures the 2 stones
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yay, was right.
Lothus [1d?\]: AppleEye you traitor :P
Alligato [1d\]: no cut, no way out, 
WildThing [1d\]: m2
SimbaRules [1k\]: Tenuki now lol? You're crazy.
TheDuke [2d?\]: q7 atari makes white live on the right.
SimbaRules [1k\]: W plays O4 if you tenuki.
Plax [10k\]: hm
Chirp [5d\]: crazy ? why ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: This is W living in sente.
Plax [10k\]: o5 maybe then ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Since you die lol.
Chirp [5d\]: there is nothing serious w can do
Chirp [5d\]: ...
SimbaRules [1k\]: W can kill the B group.
Chirp [5d\]: you haven't read anything right ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol?
SimbaRules [1k\]: W O4, black's move?
Prodigious [-\]: o5
Chirp [5d\]: q7 
SimbaRules [1k\]: P5
Prodigious [-\]: then there's q7
Chirp [5d\]: w's cutting stones will die
notMe [1k\]: b q7 and q6
SimbaRules [1k\]: Hmm...
cuby [1d?\]: simba we accept your apology
SimbaRules [1k\]: I'm not convinced yet ;) .
ThunderGod [6d\]: q7 bad
Chirp [5d\]: not immediately ofc
Alligato [1d\]: o5 is good enough for b
shakti [-\]:  using reading against a kyu player is not very nice
notMe [1k\]: why?
blibaboob: makes the game too imbalanced
backpack1 [3d\]: o4 
Chirp [5d\]: if you play q7 when w o4 , then w s8 , b o5 , and w can r5 later NotMe
okiol [1d\]: i like that the power of authority dosen't automatically win arguments atleast
AndyCH [?\]: Small beginner's question : where isn't there a "i" column ? Is it historical or is it to avoid typos and mistake with the l ?
Chirp [5d\]: so it's best to save q7 
okiol [1d\]: but there is a reason why people listen to authority ^^
SimbaRules [1k\]: I/J, Andy.
sedvu: yes, andy
Chirp [5d\]: I think it's to avoid confusion
AndyCH [?\]: all right, thank you for your answers !
Lothus [1d?\]: so guo juan forgot about commentary?
Toichi [7d?\]: what's the reason okiol?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK laughing to himself.
okiol [1d\]: they're often right ^^
]
;B[qo]C[Helita [3k\]: what happen if b q7?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: q7 s8
AppleEye [1d\]: W is alive in sente
Ukasuhs [5d\]: s8 makes w alive
okiol [1d\]: w can't tenuki this.. right?
Helita [3k\]: oh i see
Alligato [1d\]: q7 make w live
Helita [3k\]: thanks
sedvu: s8 or q7... then K2?
TheDuke [2d?\]: really don't like r5
sedvu: T2*
Toichi [7d?\]: that's debateable
sedvu: .... R*2
Backflash [6k?\]: r5 killed w
bert [?\]: sedvu, and when you exhauist 2nd line?
Plax [10k\]: but can white connect at q7 in sente ?
okiol [1d\]: i guess the point of r5 is that now w has to answer to live?
sedvu: typing in dark at 4am, bert. meant r2 all along 
Alligato [1d\]: w need one move to live
okiol [1d\]: cause he doesn't have s5 in sente anymore
bert [?\]: hmmm, is r2 really the move for b to attack the corner?
BGAadmin [-\]: I think W can do Q7 in sente, but B O4 (or whatever) makes B even stronger.
Alligato [1d\]: w Q7, b O5, w still needs a move
AppleEye [1d\]: but Q7 gives a cut later at O6
okiol [1d\]: what's the respective timers at?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK has used 0:32. AS has used 1:49.
bert [?\]: respectively
TheDuke [2d?\]: any lunch breaks?
AppleEye [1d\]: what about O4, O5 then P5?
ChrisM [9k\]: w has has used most of his time already?
AppleEye [1d\]: forget that, sorry
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes. Lunch soon.
bert [?\]: hah, i thought as plan was to starve ak to lose
okiol [1d\]: 1:49 still leaves more than an hour
okiol [1d\]: they start with 3 hours
]
;W[rl]C[sedvu: this is uberdude and warfreak?
AppleEye [1d\]: yes
FrenchDude [4d?\]: an hour is not enough for middle game
BGAadmin [-\]: Also, overtime is 10 moves in 10 minutes. You can play a lot of Go at that speed.
ChrisM [9k\]: well if you spend nearly 2 hours to give away so much influence i dont fancy w's chances with the other hour 
Firzen [3d\]: Yeah, silly white taking profit
Prodigious [-\]: points are for nerds
ChrisM [9k\]: i mean b has time advantage and influence for the rest of the game
TobyM [2d?\]: Is lunch break at 13:00?
okiol [1d\]: w needs less points and more pointers!
copsewood: Doesn't b s2 kill white's corner here ?
Alligato [1d\]: their middle game started at move 16
Chirp [5d\]: s2 r2 s1 m2 
Chirp [5d\]: s2 r2 t1 m2 sorry
okiol [1d\]: w has m2
okiol [1d\]: also, if b gets m2 and s2, w still have a ko at s1
Lothus [1d?\]: can b tenuki?
copsewood: thanks okiol
Helita [3k\]: can
Lothus [1d?\]: or p3?
Alligato [1d\]: ko? where are the ko threats for w
BGAadmin [-\]: OK, the next move will be the sealed move.
bert [?\]: can and will
BGAadmin [-\]: Then we will be gone for about 1 hours for lunch.
Lothus [1d?\]: oh, food is coming
Filip41 [7k?\]: nice. 
BGAadmin [-\]: If anyone has a way to contact Guo Juan, that would be good.
okiol [1d\]: haha
bert [?\]: cya later all
BGAadmin [-\]: I hope she is OK, and has not been eated by a polar bear.
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
okiol [1d\]: what she was eaten by a polar bear
BGAadmin [-\]: She is in Canada.
food [6k?\]: hi lothus :)
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i doubt b will s2
TheDuke [2d?\]: early morning here in America.
Plax [10k\]: m2 sente against the bottom ?
okiol [1d\]: i think it's time for tenuki now
okiol [1d\]: maybe even a move like c14 to get a fight going?
AppleEye [1d\]: Interesting sealed move position :)
okiol [1d\]: i thought it was one more move
AppleEye [1d\]: Black's next move is a sealed move, right?
okiol [1d\]: ohh sealed move
AppleEye [1d\]: sente for ko only
okiol [1d\]: i thought it meant like "sealing move", but it means that black hides it until after lunch, right?
Lothus [1d?\]: yes
okiol [1d\]: right ok
okiol [1d\]: w should see if he can read b's eye movement to get an advantage!
AppleEye [1d\]: ^^
BGAadmin [-\]: The players are currently discussing the moves around S13. Seems a bit early for the post-mortem to me.
Lothus [1d?\]: by watching b's eyes he can only fall in love with him :S b is tricky
Firzen [3d\]: Well, we already know that Andrew will win
Lothus [1d?\]: \\o/
AppleEye [1d\]: lol Lothus! ;-)
BGAadmin [-\]: At the break, AH has used 0:41 and AS has used 1:51. The move is sealed. See you after lunch.
Lothus [1d?\]: :)
LoveGo [1k?\]: this is good for white
Lothus [1d?\]: for b .
uk2400 [2d?\]: b + time pressure seems the likely conclusion
LoveGo [1d?\]: for black is just like a little dot
Filip41 [7k?\]: Lothus - you are biassed, and you know what i am talking about :D
Lothus [1d?\]: I know b's style of playing and I prefere  how b is standing
Lothus [1d?\]: big fight is coming
LoveGo [1d?\]: corners are gold, sided silver and the center is hay
Firzen [3d\]: I think w has an easier position to play, but that doesn't necessarily mean, that black is behind
LoveGo [1d?\]: if d10 would be black i can say black is better
LoveGo [1d?\]: o9 was just too slow
Lothus [1d?\]: there is only one croner safe
Lothus [1d?\]: b can tenuki now or p3
LoveGo [1d?\]: p3 is small now^^
LoveGo [1d?\]: black need to play something like e8
LoveGo [1d?\]: but f17 is very big
LoveGo [1d?\]: thats why black was too slow with o9
LoveGo [1d?\]: o9 should be at d10
blibaboob: looks like an easy win for w
LoveGo [1d?\]: never easy
LoveGo [1d?\]: n16 maybe
LoveGo [1d?\]: d8
guojuan [5p\]: hello 
LoveGo [1d?\]: f17
Lothus [1d?\]: !
Filip41 [7k?\]: !
Filip41 [7k?\]: hi!
guojuan [5p\]: sorry I am too late!!!
LoveGo [1d?\]: hi guo
Lothus [1d?\]: hello guo!
Lothus [1d?\]: oh, you can start commentary now ;)
LoveGo [1d?\]: u need to tell us o9 was good or should be at d10^^
Lothus [1d?\]: but now is lunch break
guojuan [5p\]: I could not get online !!!
blibaboob: so both players use the lunch break to call a pro hotline now?
guojuan [5p\]: finally 
Filip41 [7k?\]: actually we need admin to give editing rights to this game to Guo
guojuan [5p\]: I will colone it now 
Lothus [1d?\]: of course there will be a clone filip
guojuan [5p\]: no 
guojuan [5p\]: I just clone it it 
Filip41 [7k?\]: ok
LoveGo [1d?\]: yeah guo go go:-)
guojuan [5p\]: pleas let people know 
guojuan [5p\]: I have it  now
medical [2k\]: loud and clear :)
Tarka [5k\]: Phew!
Tarka [5k\]: Finally here. What did I miss?
ponno [7k?\]: an admin should wrigt it in bold
BGAadmin [-\]: Right. We are just back from lunch.
BGAadmin [-\]: Avout to restart
]
;B[dm]C[BGAadmin [-\]: We wen to Wagamama for lunch, and both players had roast duck ramen, so kind-of miai.
BGAadmin [-\]: Glad Guo got here eventually. I hope she kept you all entertained during the break.
]
;W[fd]
;B[dh]C[BGAadmin [-\]: Andrew Kay (B) has used 44 minutes. Andrew Simons (W) has used 1:58.
BGAadmin [-\]: Time limits are 3 hours for each player, with 10 moves in 10 stones overtime.
LoveGo [1d?\]: who won the first game?
Filip41 [7k?\]: warfreak i belive
BGAadmin [-\]: Andrew Kay, defending champion, won the first game.
Lothus [1d?\]: \\o/
BGAadmin [-\]: And, it is a best of three match.
Filip41 [7k?\]: so Andrew Kay can end it with this match?
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes.
Filip41 [7k?\]: i think there is this psychologicall side of this - warfreak might get agressive just to make Simons lose more time for analysing things. and put more stress on him. 
BGAadmin [-\]: Andrew Kay is aggressive. Full stop.
BGAadmin [-\]: (Go style, that is)
]
;W[ei]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: i guess his account name gives it out. :d
copsewood: Yep. Just renewed warfreak2.org.uk for him.
]
;B[cd]C[Lothus [1d?\]: he choosed this nickname when he was 13 yo, i wouldnt take it serious
copsewood: Well, he's stuck with it.
Lothus [1d?\]: quite normal, I am stuck with this one, because everybody knows it
copsewood: does that mean anything in Polish ?
Lothus [1d?\]: it doesn't mean anything :p when I invented it I wanted it to sound mysterious
Lothus [1d?\]: and I was young too :P
copsewood: :)
Zimbabwe [6k\]: how much time do they have left?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK has used 49 mins. AS has got 42 mins left of main time.
BGAadmin [-\]: Oops 47.
LoveGo [1d?\]: from where exactly in England they are from?
]
;W[cc]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Andrew Simons is around Cambridge, I think Andrew Kay around London?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK was born in Coventry.
aitkensam [-\]: poor boy
Lothus [1d?\]: now Ak is around birmingham
Lothus [1d?\]: and AS around thailand ;p
BGAadmin [-\]: And now teaches maths or computing or something at Birmingham Metropolitan university
copsewood: Yes BGA he moved to Brum yesterday.
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes.
LoveGo [1d?\]: are they both math genius?
Lothus [1d?\]: why both? ;)
copsewood: aitkensam, being sent to Coventry is a great privilege.
Lothus [1d?\]: AS is a physicist
bert [?\]: ah yes, i was wondering about warfreak's choice of nickname
LoveGo [1d?\]: physicist, math, for me its the same
]
;B[de]C[Lothus [1d?\]: t is not
Lothus [1d?\]: it*
Lothus [1d?\]: in one year I will be both propably, and it is not the same
SimbaRules [1k\]: Agreed on that, I did applied maths and anyone who refers to me as a physicist gets claws used on them. :)
SimbaRules [1k\]: Applied maths is doing something useful with equations, physics is doing it in a lab.
LoveGo [1d?\]: all go players are so educated an smart
copsewood: BGA, it's Birmingham City Uni, not Metropolitan Uni.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And pure maths is making sure we have equations to work from and that they are consistent etc.
Lothus [1d?\]: theoretic physics sounds better than applied math for me :P
Lothus [1d?\]: theoretical *
SimbaRules [1k\]: Well I was in DAMTP (department of applied maths and theoretical physics).
SimbaRules [1k\]: They are kinda overlapped but it's the approach moreso.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Theory vs practise is sorta applied maths vs 'proper' physics.
Lothus [1d?\]: I am doing masters from theoretical physics and bachelor from maths
afar [2d\]: They sound similar, but mathematicians think about things totally differently to theoretical physicists
afar [2d\]: At least that's what I find
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, same.
SimbaRules [1k\]: The physics people I talk with tend to like stuff that shows it is true, empirical data.
Lothus [1d?\]: afar I agree
copsewood: Engineers and Physicists have a bit of a history of taking pure maths and applying it to something.
bert [?\]: have you been told about the kgs string theory?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Whereas applied maths people are happy enough with "my equation says it does X when I solve it".
SimbaRules [1k\]: Physics is more "seeing is believing" I guess :) .
Lothus [1d?\]: simba you are talking propably about experimental physicists
]
;W[ce]
;B[bd]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, indeed - I was very theoretical.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lab stuff always bored me to tears.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Also theoretical meant I never had to go to any lectures and could get up at 3pm ;) .
BGAadmin [-\]: Meanwhile, another complex fight can only help AK get AS into more time trouble.
Lothus [1d?\]: I had to do a thesis from experiental physics for my bachelor from physics, I thought that I will die from it
SimbaRules [1k\]: Maybe that's the strategy all along.
]
;W[be]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Like with Nick Krempel.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And yeah :( I know the feeling Lothus.
Filip41 [7k?\]: is anyone interested in the fact that two Andrews are trying to kill eachother on the board right now? :d
Lothus [1d?\]: everybody propably
SimbaRules [1k\]: I think it'd be more fun if you gave them both a sabre in real life.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And streamed that.
Filip41 [7k?\]: Id love a commentary from Eric Idle additionally
SimbaRules [1k\]: Domino's just got here. I will now be quiet and happy and satisfied. :D
]
;B[dc]
;W[ed]
;B[bc]C[BGAadmin [-\]: The white peep at N8 is a ladder breaker.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Extend I would've thought first, surely.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Looks like only move.
BGAadmin [-\]: D18 is also a move in some situations.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Hmm, to try to make B live small in the corner? Interesting.
SimbaRules [1k\]: When do you play each?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: d18 is used in a stiuation when b15 is at c14 for example
SimbaRules [1k\]: Ah, why, Ukasuhs?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: because in that situation, if you play c18, it just dies
SimbaRules [1k\]: Is C18 not just dead here?
BGAadmin [-\]: C18, B18, D18, D14, is W captured?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Ah no, B19 tesuji.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: After C18 D18 B18 A18 B19 I mean.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: c18 b has to b18 or something on the outside
Ukasuhs [5d\]: you can just atari
Ukasuhs [5d\]: if b gives you b18
Depredador [2d\]: w  d14 like better to mee 
]
;W[cb]
;B[cf]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: so b is doing this way O.o
Ukasuhs [5d\]: b14 b13 c13 a14 d14 a15 e15 d18 b18 a18 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: very painful exchanges on the outside
]
;W[bf]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: This looks good for W :S I'm not sure why this variation is played.
Javaness [2d\]: read again
Prodigious [-\]: this does nab the c18 stones
Prodigious [-\]: but at what cost
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya, i dont like it for b either
martin3141 [-\]: i think black doesn't have a good option
toadwarble [8k\]: Time check?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK laughing to himself.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: id blame d15
Filip41 [7k?\]: wow is he? :d
]
;B[bb]C[aitkensam [-\]: ??
Ukasuhs [5d\]: now im confused
Ukasuhs [5d\]: this just doesnt work
BGAadmin [-\]: He also just said "This is pretty ludicrous."
SimbaRules [1k\]: Maybe he knows W dead.
Depredador [2d\]: b like dead 
afar [2d\]: Playing mind games
]
;W[db]
;B[cg]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, I agree W is dead here.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Maybe youi guys are reading differently?
BGAadmin [-\]: There is still the D14 ladder.
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
BGAadmin [-\]: WIth N8 as a ladder break.
ponno [7k?\]: guo juan pretict this
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well its too late for a ladder breaker here. the fight is too heavy
BGAadmin [-\]: Wow!
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but
Javaness [2d\]: resign
Ukasuhs [5d\]: b13 b12 d14 e15 d13 c12 f14 is a net
Prodigious [-\]: yeah, b13 is annoying
BGAadmin [-\]: Oh.
Filip41 [7k?\]: this is huge missread by W? how did this happen... O_o
martin3141 [-\]: black wants to sacrifice to kill e11 and d10
failbetter [5d\]: this is huge misread by b filip
failbetter [5d\]: no answer to b13
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh
Ukasuhs [5d\]: b gets to connect underneath on the 1st line... and then still not get an eye in the corner yet
Ukasuhs [5d\]: id imagine w is trying to figure out if he wants to cut first
Lothus [1d?\]: guo juan explained what to do
aitkensam [-\]: b can only try to sac
Filip41 [7k?\]: i dotn watch guo, cause i dont have speakers in this old PC at work. :/ cant hear what she sais
Filip41 [7k?\]: aaand my english is crap. :/ sorry
BGAadmin [-\]: Even if B loses the corner, if the two W stones are floating in that sea of black, black still hase chances.
]
;W[bg]
;B[bh]
;W[df]
;B[ee]
;W[ci]
;B[ch]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Wha, no D13?
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh wow.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: oh, w wants to squeeze
Ukasuhs [5d\]: instead f net
Ukasuhs [5d\]: also a good result
]
;W[ml]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Or ladder. :P
Filip41 [7k?\]: and now ladder
failbetter [5d\]: hm, so ladder break at n8 could allow capture p4 ?
aitkensam [-\]: wow
SimbaRules [1k\]: Exciting game lol.
failbetter [5d\]: but i dont like that for w
failbetter [5d\]: a lot to give away top left
aitkensam [-\]: i dont like w either
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i guess it turns out absolutely any line of play for w is a good result >.>
Depredador [2d\]: e14
failbetter [5d\]: is capturing q4 that good?
Ukasuhs [5d\]:  but personally i wouldnt choose this way
Filip41 [7k?\]: idprefer to take that corner and let w cut the right side
Lothus [1d?\]: hahah
failbetter [5d\]: b get even thicker in center
Ukasuhs [5d\]: id either squeeze with f14 or have played the net instead of c11
Alligato [1d\]: still b is easier to play
Lothus [1d?\]: guojuan said that  she predicted that and likes b
failbetter [5d\]: anyway f15 seems only move
Alligato [1d\]: pity b didn't exchange M2
BGAadmin [-\]: Is Guo predicting this becuase they are the best moves, or because she knows the style of these players?
SimbaRules [1k\]: F15? Hmm.
Filip41 [7k?\]: now this moment reminds me why i like go. This is just cool.
]
;B[ff]
;W[np]
;B[no]C[Lothus [1d?\]: b is so cool!
]
;W[oo]
;B[nl]
;W[pm]C[Depredador [2d\]: a15 now 
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol :) Lothus is like one of those girls waving the pompoms in anime.
Depredador [2d\]: or g11 ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: What about something like D3?
martin3141 [-\]: I think AK is happy with this exchange
Filip41 [7k?\]: now this game lack a huge ko in the mid game. just for black to use leverage in lower right corner :D
libraries [4d?\]: and so is AS
Neuneck [6k?\]: yay, everyone's happy
libraries [4d?\]: fits both of their strategy
BGAadmin [-\]: W now has 29 mins left. B has 1:58
BGAadmin [-\]: (Plus 10/10 overtime.)
]
;B[hf]C[TobyM [2d?\]: It s a pity B sdid not play M2 while it was sente!
Chirp [5d\]: b's moyo is a bit open
BGAadmin [-\]: AK just said that, acutally.
BGAadmin [-\]: AK just tried to make a new proverb: "If you can spill your drink in your territory, you have won." ;-)
Filip41 [7k?\]: it would depend on a drink
SimbaRules [1k\]: Lol, the drink-spilling game, it'll go down in history.
SimbaRules [1k\]: More socially acceptable than vomiting blood.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: lol
]
;W[hi]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: or nuclear bombs?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, that's also a bit unacceptable by today's standards.
]
;B[ek]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: what about red ears?
SimbaRules [1k\]: That's kinda okay I suppose.
HighStoner [4k\]: oldschool\\
SimbaRules [1k\]: That'd actually be a useful tesuji.
Alligato [1d\]: is E14 a move?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Being able to make your ears go red during the game.
Filip41 [7k?\]: nobody would notice today. id have to tweet about your humiliation for someone to notice in our times
BGAadmin [-\]: The captured W stones only have 3 liberties.
libraries [4d?\]: what was the result of the first game?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Black won.
Filip41 [7k?\]: AK +W
SimbaRules [1k\]: Or well, the person playing black now won.
libraries [4d?\]: was is resignation?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yes.
libraries [4d?\]: thanks :)
SimbaRules [1k\]: The other guy was short on time and played a time tesuji that was not actually sente.
SimbaRules [1k\]: So just died massively.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Is it worth W getting B11 in while it's still sente?
]
;W[fj]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: I suppose pretty much always will be, nvm.
BGAadmin [-\]: B11 takes a liberty off the dead stones. Probably aji-keshi
]
;B[fk]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, it's aji-keshi, big ko threat and won't become un-sente.
jyka [1k\]: Don't took the skin of the animal before to kill it 
SimbaRules [1k\]: gote, that's the un-sente word I was looking for.
Filip41 [7k?\]: lol
SimbaRules [1k\]: I used to live in sente, but then I took an arrow to the eye.
libraries [4d?\]: :)
kayagsa [3d\]: who win?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Probably B? Hard to say for sure though atm.
]
;W[hk]C[kayagsa [3d\]: g10 is kyusho
]
;B[ej]C[LoveGo [1d?\]: ouch looks like white shape is full of holes now
SimbaRules [1k\]: He probably plans to sacrifice some of it.
SimbaRules [1k\]: I imagine a fast move here, maybe invading the bottom.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Rather than say D11.
BGAadmin [-\]: I was just trying to count. W has 38 bottom-right, 15 Top right, 6 Top Left, + 7.5 komi = 66.5
MoonCrest [-\]: w living in the center very big, but surely invading the bottom is considered.
]
;W[fi]
;B[gk]C[MoonCrest [-\]: and yeah simba. ^^
SimbaRules [1k\]: Mmm, if white finishes in gote here it could be painful.
MoonCrest [-\]: possibly.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Something like F3 or even C3 is pretty huge.
Lothus [1d?\]: :)
Lothus [1d?\]: !
HighStoner [4k\]: h10 now?
Lothus [1d?\]: guo wants to play black
SimbaRules [1k\]: If W plays H10, black will just play E3.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And the lower left looks too big.
SimbaRules [1k\]: D11/H8 also miai for a bunch more points.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but h8 is way bigger >.<
Achiles [2k\]: I10
SimbaRules [1k\]: H8 is bigger than what?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: than d11
Ukasuhs [5d\]: after w h10
]
;W[hj]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: I suppose, but B can't play H8.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Since then W invades bottom.
SimbaRules [1k\]: And H8 looks a bit pointless?
BGAadmin [-\]: AS has 15 mins left.
martin97 [1d\]: 3 hours for 46 moves
martin97 [1d\]: i would drive crazy ^^
martin97 [1d\]: did they start 5 or 6 hrs ago?
BGAadmin [-\]: 5 hrs ago.
SimbaRules [1k\]: More like 3 hours 30 ago ;) .
BGAadmin [-\]: With a 1 hr lunch break
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but there was lunch break
]
;B[hm]C[kayagsa [3d\]: c3
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah, agreed.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: maybe k3 or e2
SimbaRules [1k\]: Invasion time. :)
kayagsa [3d\]: or g14 first?
BGAadmin [-\]: D3 also
SimbaRules [1k\]: Ukasuhs, you think this was right direction?
SimbaRules [1k\]: Or black should play E3 instead?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: no, if black plays e3, w jumps to h7 and whole right side wall is wasted
kayagsa [3d\]: g14...
SimbaRules [1k\]: Hmm, I see, so B gets more points like this even if W invades bottom?
kayagsa [3d\]: w can n7 m5 cut m2
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i would think so
SimbaRules [1k\]: I see, okay, ty for info.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: also, even if b gets e3, w has k3
Ukasuhs [5d\]: and you probably cant kill it
SimbaRules [1k\]: Yeah.
BGAadmin [-\]: If B fills all liberties N2, 3, 4 is there any aji in the corner?
SimbaRules [1k\]: W can always just connect S2 if there is danger.
SimbaRules [1k\]: To avoid ko.
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes, but that is horribly gote.
SimbaRules [1k\]: It is but so is N2/N3/N4. ;)
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think w would have to answer if all the libs were taken
Plax [10k\]: I would try to live in the center first
SimbaRules [1k\]: You mean right now Plax? If W plays in centre, black will secure the whole lower left.
SiaBBo [3k\]: ylk
kayagsa [3d\]: no g14?
BGAadmin [-\]: I am only asking in case the liberties get filled in teh fight.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: g14 g13 g15 f13 ?
]
;W[id]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Wow.
SimbaRules [1k\]: W thinks top large enough?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: no, w thinks b cant get everything with one move
BGAadmin [-\]:  I think W is saying "I dare you to try to kill me". 
SimbaRules [1k\]: Everything in lower left? Ah wow.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: at least, thats my guess
SimbaRules [1k\]: Surely something like D3 just works for that? E3 bit more adventurous but still okay I'd imagine.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Dunno though!
]
;B[jf]
;W[ig]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Almost byo-yomi time :) .
Alligato [1d\]: this is a mental challenge
BGAadmin [-\]: W has 9 mins left.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: w is going to g14 maybe?
]
;B[if]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: id like to see g14 :)
kayagsa [3d\]: l12
kayagsa [3d\]: then w aim g14 cut
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya, also a good plan i think
aristokrat [2d\]: where should b defend the bottom later?
]
;W[gf]C[Achiles [2k\]: k3
Alligato [1d\]: D3
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i imagine black's goal for this fight is to make some good way to consolidate the bottom side
BGAadmin [-\]: AK like talking to himself.
kayagsa [3d\]: i think now g14 too ealier
]
;B[gg]
;W[ge]
;B[fg]C[kayagsa [3d\]: after l12 better
Achiles [2k\]: dat aji
Ukasuhs [5d\]: w gets some eyeshape from it too, though
BGAadmin [-\]: AK though about answering G14 at G15, but then decided to be safe.
kayagsa [3d\]: k13 good shape for b
]
;W[kh]C[MTA [4k\]: time?
Plax [10k\]: white is not going to cut too soon it seems
kayagsa [3d\]: j12?
BGAadmin [-\]: AK has 1:50 left. AS has 4 mins left.
BGAadmin [-\]: Then 10 moves in 10 mins overtime.
MTA [4k\]: ty
kayagsa [3d\]: k16
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think i preferred cut for w
libraries [4d?\]: more consistent with g14 cut
BGAadmin [-\]: Lothus, I think it is sad that AK can't see your support during the game.
Plax [10k\]: l16 ?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: also, after w has h13, w g12 is a good followup
kayagsa [3d\]: hm
kayagsa [3d\]: certnly
kayagsa [3d\]: but k13 good for b too
]
;B[lf]C[Plax [10k\]: m16 
Alligato [1d\]: m16 is greedy
Plax [10k\]: hm, l17 then
Filip41 [7k?\]: wat.
Lothus [1d?\]: he knows about my support
]
;W[mh]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: there are so many possibilities at this stage of game, and i just read what is big enough
Filip41 [7k?\]: ._.
kryft [1k\]: Lothus, How come you're not spectating live? Too distracting for AK? :)
Filip41 [7k?\]: i feel like dumbass here
Filip41 [7k?\]: kryft - probably. :d
Lothus [1d?\]: I am studing in different country
Filip41 [7k?\]: also im sleepy >_>
BGAadmin [-\]: Are you coming over for the London Open?
Lothus [1d?\]: I will be in  UK 10.12 - 6.01 so propably we will go to London Open
BGAadmin [-\]: Yay!
BGAadmin [-\]: http://www.britgo.org/tournaments/logc
BGAadmin [-\]: One of my favourite tournaments each year.
BGAadmin [-\]: O13 makes black safe. But then does he have enough territory?
Lothus [1d?\]: I have been on it last eyar
kayagsa [3d\]: m11
Lothus [1d?\]: I was sick and I fell asleep on the table near to entrance, maybe you remember me ;)
BGAadmin [-\]: Not sure about that. I remeber you from Edinburgh though, I think.
LoveGo [1d?\]: what is time limit now?
quinza [6k?\]: Is white in byoyomi yet?
BGAadmin [-\]: White has 1 minute of main time left.
BGAadmin [-\]: Black has 1:38.
LoveGo [1d?\]: ty
Neuneck [6k?\]: aahh this is to thrilling... i need to study, but I can't :D
BGAadmin [-\]: I wonder if AK is taking time to read out all the aji, in all the parts of the board, before AS goes into overtime.
Tarka [5k\]: I'm so damn busy I've hardly been able to look at this thing at any point - somebody sum it up for me - what's going on?
]
;B[nf]C[Plax [10k\]: they are playing go
Neuneck [6k?\]: do you work at the microsoft help hotline?
Tarka [5k\]: Cool thanks Plax that helps
Neuneck [6k?\]: correct but utterly useless anwer...
Plax [10k\]: always happy to help
Alligato [1d\]: still trying to capture?
BGAadmin [-\]: W has lots of territory. B has lots of thickness, and a moyo, but not solid territory yet.
Achiles [2k\]: N14 seems in pattern now
BGAadmin [-\]: W has a weak group.
BGAadmin [-\]: Guo likes B more than W.
Tarka [5k\]: Is white in trouble in the middle there?
Tarka [5k\]: Looks a bit tight to say the least
patcher [1d\]: w is dead
BGAadmin [-\]: I woudl be surprised if W acutally dies.
patcher [1d\]: :)
BGAadmin [-\]: The question is, what can B get by attacking.
patcher [1d\]: me too
Tarka [5k\]: The bottom left hand side looks entiurely black's to me
BGAadmin [-\]: 3-3 invasion to start with
BGAadmin [-\]: C3
BGAadmin [-\]: Also M2 is a big endgame move.
Filip41 [7k?\]: Tarka - there was also this intence moment where someone missread the right side and there was ladder braker and trade of cuts. :d
Filip41 [7k?\]: intense
Tarka [5k\]: Who is dead bottom right? Black?
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes
Alligato [1d\]: if w get sente to 3-3, w win
Tarka [5k\]: Thanks Filip!
BGAadmin [-\]: So, W has 37 points there, Plus M2
Tarka [5k\]: Wow looks like it's been really exciting
Lothus [1d?\]: AK \\o/
BGAadmin [-\]: Note there is a copy of the game where Guo Juan is doing a commentary
]
;W[kk]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: l7 ?
BGAadmin [-\]: I think D11 is about a 25-point gote endgame move. Is that about right?
]
;B[jl]
;W[jk]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: d11 wouldnt be sente if white played it? 
Filip41 [7k?\]: i mean, he would respond to it, and try damage control?
BGAadmin [-\]: B now has only 1:30 left ;-)
Filip41 [7k?\]: poor B :d
BGAadmin [-\]: For D11 to be sente, B's next move in the area would have to be worth more than 25 points. It isn't.
Minjhou [7k\]: how to close D4 if the opponent does not attack it? any trick?
]
;B[il]C[Achiles [2k\]: d3 is standard
Minjhou [7k\]: just c3 on a sente move?
Minjhou [7k\]: *d3
BGAadmin [-\]: C3 should be gote here, I think.
]
;W[di]C[BGAadmin [-\]: C3, D3, C4, C6 (not C5)
Minjhou [7k\]: also d3 and any bl corner play i think
Filip41 [7k?\]: C6 not C5 - what does that do? gives b sente?
Filip41 [7k?\]: on next move?
BGAadmin [-\]: That is the aim of C6. Uses the D7 stone better.
]
;B[ck]C[BGAadmin [-\]: Ah, so D11 was sente, since B does not want W to get an eye ehre.
]
;W[bi]
;B[ah]C[first0: two 4d's in the final?
Filip41 [7k?\]: really. but there is so much space in center to get two of them
Ukasuhs [5d\]: a12 O.o
failbetter [5d\]: a12 to prevent eye also
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but b19 is still sente
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but w a11 wasnt sente
Plax [10k\]: maybe black wants sente
failbetter [5d\]: it was sente
BGAadmin [-\]: A11 threatens to kill the B corner, right?
toadwarble [8k\]: Times?
failbetter [5d\]: no BGA
BGAadmin [-\]: W has 6 stones to play in 4 mins.
failbetter [5d\]: but it threatens e12 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but you can answer e12 with a15
]
;W[mj]C[failbetter [5d\]: and then h13 help eyeshape a lot
Ukasuhs [5d\]: and you gain more poaints in the corner than you lose in e13 area since w saving d14 would still be gote
Ukasuhs [5d\]: points*
failbetter [5d\]: its very hard to count
failbetter [5d\]: yes, a12 loses quite a lot of points
failbetter [5d\]: but it may pay back
BGAadmin [-\]: Surely, If W A12, the weak gropu is connected out?
BGAadmin [-\]: Or, does that not matter since W is now alive.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: what i meant was a13 instead so that w b19 is gote
BGAadmin [-\]: Ah!
BGAadmin [-\]: I think B D3 now.
Filip41 [7k?\]: but its gote
Filip41 [7k?\]: l16 maybe?
Filip41 [7k?\]: l17 ?
BGAadmin [-\]: But AK might try to prove K3 kills the corner invasion.
failbetter [5d\]: hard
failbetter [5d\]: but e3 m2 w should be ahead on points
Achiles [2k\]: O17 starts to look yummy
Filip41 [7k?\]: bad eating habbits i suppose
BGAadmin [-\]: Can W play L15 in sente?
Filip41 [7k?\]: hobbits :d
Plax [10k\]: what is bigger place to play d3 or the top ?
Achiles [2k\]: d3 all the way
failbetter [5d\]: i hate shape like this 
failbetter [5d\]: not sure if w center is even alive
SimbaRules [1k\]: Same.
]
;B[mk]
;W[lk]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: b is willing to check this out
]
;B[jg]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: Well if he kills it he is British champion lol.
Filip41 [7k?\]: im not sure if is he helping him live or helping him die thou
SimbaRules [1k\]: I'm sure you'd check it out too :P .
failbetter [5d\]: well k13 shlould certainly be j12 
BGAadmin [-\]: AS has about 2.5 mins of this overtime period.
failbetter [5d\]: and n9 i not really killing attempt too
SimbaRules [1k\]: How many stones?
Plax [10k\]: 117 so far
SimbaRules [1k\]: I mean left in byo-yomi lol.
Filip41 [7k?\]: how many stones on overitme :d
BGAadmin [-\]: 4 I think
Neuneck [6k?\]: I'd hate if this game was lost due to time running out
SimbaRules [1k\]: It nevet is.
SimbaRules [1k\]: never*
SimbaRules [1k\]: They just play forcing moves if it comes to that.
SimbaRules [1k\]: Aji-keshi but quick.
]
;W[li]C[queenchess [2k\]: 和
SimbaRules [1k\]: M11? o_o;;;
queenchess [2k\]: hello evwery one
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ive seen a game in the british championship lost by time a few years ago
Filip41 [7k?\]: looks weird
]
;B[jh]
;W[ji]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: O11? :S
SimbaRules [1k\]: Uh-oh...
BGAadmin [-\]: 2 stones ~1 minute.
queenchess [2k\]: unbliveale
queenchess [2k\]: #
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think o11 is gote >.>
Filip41 [7k?\]: lol it starts to look like dead shape again. its a miracle :D
Ukasuhs [5d\]: also w can do things like d9 d8 g10 
Ukasuhs [5d\]: to try to keep sente
]
;B[ik]
;W[ij]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: put the stone inside
Filip41 [7k?\]: dotn think. just do it! :D
]
;B[kj]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: :D
SimbaRules [1k\]: He listened!
Filip41 [7k?\]: yes! :D
SimbaRules [1k\]: O11 surely.
failbetter [5d\]: this is naive
failbetter [5d\]: b doesnt rad
BGAadmin [-\]: Or M13
failbetter [5d\]: read*
Ukasuhs [5d\]: ya, this looks like b is giving w a point
]
;W[ih]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: and w might still get sente at this rate
BGAadmin [-\]: Into 2nd overtime period
Plax [10k\]: then again, h12 connects
]
;B[hh]C[failbetter [5d\]: if this continues like this b will be way behind
BGAadmin [-\]: That ws move 124, so next one will end at 144.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i predict d9 d8 g10 
failbetter [5d\]: now g10 like said
SimbaRules [1k\]: B trying to goad W into tenuki.
Achiles [2k\]: alive
failbetter [5d\]: m13 lives anytime
copsewood: w 011 surely ?
SimbaRules [1k\]: If W tenuki, then black M13 kills I think.
Chirp [5d\]: why did b play h12 ?
]
;W[gh]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: W is low on time, Chirp.
BGAadmin [-\]: By the way, failbetter and Ukasuhs, thanks for commenting for us. It is great to have two 5 dans explaining thigns.
Achiles [2k\]: to give g10 to w
]
;B[hg]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: but it takes 0 seconds to see o11 is an eye, w is just making some goos kikashi
Chirp [5d\]: I don't see how that would cause b to make mistake ^^
Ukasuhs [5d\]: good*
SimbaRules [1k\]: If W tenuki, M13 still kills I think.
]
;W[gj]
;B[fh]C[Achiles [2k\]: omg
Plax [10k\]: d9 is even possible
SimbaRules [1k\]: Is it really though?
Chirp [5d\]: oh, I think I see what b is doing
Chirp [5d\]: d9 is possible, it just doesnt make an eye
Ukasuhs [5d\]: g10 is still a good kikashi for w
failbetter [5d\]: no, but it takes points in sente
Plax [10k\]: right
SimbaRules [1k\]: Assuming W lives in middle, any idea roughly what the score is?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: nope :)
BGAadmin [-\]: YOu can count the W territory, but not B
]
;W[ni]C[BGAadmin [-\]: AK's hand is hovering over O10
Neuneck [6k?\]: it liiiiiivees ( i think )
Chirp [5d\]: it should live eventually
Chirp [5d\]: I wonder it some moves around n16 by b will end up being sente
failbetter [5d\]: rough estimate is sth around 80 for w with komi
failbetter [5d\]: b has less than 20 everywhere acept bottom/lower left
Neuneck [6k?\]: soo many finals this weekend :D
]
;B[lg]C[failbetter [5d\]: so has to make sth like 60
failbetter [5d\]: only way its happening is b plays m2 now and kills c3
failbetter [5d\]: so id say w is good
Plax [10k\]: ah, thats sente
BGAadmin [-\]: But, W has to play the rest of the game in overtime.
failbetter [5d\]: also thats why w should o11 at m13 
failbetter [5d\]: it would be harder for b to reduce top
failbetter [5d\]: dunno, w is likely to blunder in byoyomi
Ukasuhs [5d\]: how much time does b have?
Achiles [2k\]: its ko not alive
BGAadmin [-\]: B has 1:15. W has 5 mins of this overtime period left (7 moves)
Neuneck [6k?\]: L10 gives a eye for sure and N11 should give another afaics
]
;W[ng]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: w can o13
Chirp [5d\]: p16 p17 q15 ?
BGAadmin [-\]: D9 is big.
failbetter [5d\]: and b can m12 
failbetter [5d\]: its bad kikashi
Chirp [5d\]: how is D9 big, it's around 6 points max
]
;B[oh]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: d9 d8 h8 g7 l7 later
Neuneck [6k?\]: g8 can follow
failbetter [5d\]: chrip, b19 is around 6 for w d9 loses another 6, just see how many points b lost attacking
BGAadmin [-\]: OK. Thanks
oasthouse [-\]: d9 has other effects
Chirp [5d\]: compared to m2 it;s just not big ^^
Caode [8k?\]: poop, which colour is which andrew?
Lothus [1d?\]: b
oasthouse [-\]: helps w live in the corner
Caode [8k?\]: heya lothus. :)
]
;W[of]
;B[og]C[Lothus [1d?\]: hello caode
Filip41 [7k?\]: m2 is big cause of l1 or is there something else i dont see?
Lothus [1d?\]: remember about kibitzzing!
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay \\o/
Caode [8k?\]: go kay go!
failbetter [5d\]: m2 affect life and death on entire lower side
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh. 
]
;W[mf]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: like, right now w k3 is sente
SimbaRules [1k\]: M12? :S
Filip41 [7k?\]: i assumed b is just a dead group there.
]
;B[ne]C[Chirp [5d\]: should we start betting on w losing by time ?
BGAadmin [-\]: Less than 1 min.
BGAadmin [-\]: 4 movesi think
]
(;W[mg]C[SimbaRules [1k\]: M12...
Chirp [5d\]: ok, bet won
Firzen [3d\]: might also lose by dying
])
(;W[me]
;B[mg]
;W[nh]C[FrenchDude [4d?\]: if he dies it will be because of time also
]
;B[md]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: well he is alive
]
;W[nj]C[Filip41 [7k?\]: officially as of now
Lothus [1d?\]: r17 and n 17?
Chirp [5d\]: hence b should have played p16 p17 q15 earlier
failbetter [5d\]: all w moves starting from o11 to o10 are wrong
Ukasuhs [5d\]: and b has to answer?
Achiles [2k\]: paid a bit on upper side though
oasthouse [-\]: W played some very good moves
oasthouse [-\]: like o13
Achiles [2k\]: ok d3 already
nuubcakes [?\]: he lives.. I bet white is wiping off some sweat right now..
failbetter [5d\]: o13 was bad and should be calmy at m12 
Filip41 [7k?\]: fail, is this not a difference  of  1 point
Filip41 [7k?\]: ?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: failbetter, m12 o10
Chirp [5d\]: how is m12 better than o13 ?
Plax [10k\]: just m15 is not good enough ?
oasthouse [-\]: If m12, b o10 and a problem (according to Guo Juan)
Neuneck [6k?\]: wouldn't it have settled the whole thing w/o destroying top so much?
Achiles [2k\]: no he was lucky to live
FrenchDude [4d?\]: n14 should have been at o12
oasthouse [-\]: He was skillful to live
Achiles [2k\]: ^
oasthouse [-\]: He could have done a little less damage perhaps...
BGAadmin [-\]: Wo6 is a problem for B
oasthouse [-\]: But he lived (while in byoyomi)
Chirp [5d\]: I don't think o6 is a problem
Chirp [5d\]: p16 p17 q15 is sente
Chirp [5d\]: and prevents cut
BGAadmin [-\]: Ah. THanks.
Filip41 [7k?\]: at this point how close is this game?
Chirp [5d\]: so o6 n6 n7 p9 doesn't threaten anything
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well cutting off n5 is worth something too
]
;B[ko]
;W[ba]C[RubberDuck [?\]: i would have tried d9 then g7 before o10. black's eyesteal is only ko. seems the game depends on white living so anything helps
BGAadmin [-\]: 2nd overtime period over.
Ukasuhs [5d\]: if you dont play o10, b plays m12
Ukasuhs [5d\]: thats not ko
Plax [10k\]: is that sente ?
]
;B[ab]C[RubberDuck [?\]: oh yes.
RubberDuck [?\]: seems w is trying to win by yose without needing c3
]
;W[dk]
;B[dl]C[BGAadmin [-\]: B19 was to get into next overtime period.
Plax [10k\]: oh ok
Alligato [2d\]: O6-N7, w choose a narrow to come out
]
;W[cq]C[Plax [10k\]: finally !
]
;B[dq]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: i feel like the d9 d8 exchange might actually hurt this invasion
BGAadmin [-\]: Yes. Will AK try to kill?
Alligato [2d\]: no gurantee to live 3-3
failbetter [5d\]: if this lives, bo no chance
RubberDuck [?\]: if c4, AK will b5 and try to kill. 
BGAadmin [-\]: If W live in gote, and B get N2, still to small?
RubberDuck [?\]: w can b7, but that loses points if all dies
Firzen [3d\]: B N2 should be sente
HKA [2d\]: n2 is  big, but not quite sente I think
failbetter [5d\]: leaving d2 and trying ko
failbetter [5d\]: b n2 is not enough to win
Ukasuhs [5d\]: maybe b4
]
;W[dr]
;B[er]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: i still like b4 :)
Lothus [1d?\]: AK \\o/
]
;W[bp]C[failbetter [5d\]: good call
BGAadmin [-\]: So, W has 80+ points, right? Maybe 85? (including komi)
Filip41 [7k?\]: oh. why this shape?
BGAadmin [-\]: This is all about making 2 eyes.
Alligato [2d\]: b has lots ko threats
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i dont know if b can b5, but b2 and b6 give w life without ko
oasthouse [-\]: w playing nicely
Firzen [3d\]: b kind of has to get b5
failbetter [5d\]: b5 to ko
failbetter [5d\]: but w need small compensation
Ukasuhs [5d\]: and w can just play like l1 as ko threats
Ukasuhs [5d\]: or g8 etc
Alligato [2d\]: w gambling all the way, so far worked
BGAadmin [-\]: Can B threaten Top right as ko threats?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: probably some
oasthouse [-\]: tough for b
Alligato [2d\]: is D3 at B4 better?
Alligato [2d\]: or E2
BGAadmin [-\]: W has 6 stones in 5 mins. B now has only 1 hour left.
failbetter [5d\]: "only 1 hour" ^^
failbetter [5d\]: AK can play 10 games in that time
BGAadmin [-\]: ;-)
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well, in the time that twoeye and smartrobot played a game, 2 moves were played in this game
RubberDuck [?\]: white has sente at k2 or b7, so moves like d3 at e2 hard to use
Alligato [2d\]: thx
BGAadmin [-\]: How about black C2?
Ukasuhs [5d\]: c2 b2 d1 b6 b7 b1 is alive
]
;B[br]C[failbetter [5d\]: b2 b6 c2 b8 looks very bad for b
hiss [-\]: maybe reducing territory to minimum and taking sente to play on top will be enough for b?
RubberDuck [?\]: h6 looks a nice ladder break for the cut at e3
Alligato [2d\]: B2 is the only way to kill, but outside is too weak
]
;W[gl]
;B[fm]C[aitkensam [-\]: i hope time pressure doesnt decide the game :(
failbetter [5d\]: h6 is cool
failbetter [5d\]: i guess one has to be 6d to think of it
]
;W[bm]C[BGAadmin [-\]: AS has 2.5 mins for 4 stones. AK has 52 mins.
]
;B[cr]C[TobyM [2d?\]: Isn't H6 answered by G7?
]
;W[fl]C[RubberDuck [?\]: ok yose time. white has some stuff around h8, o6 etc to do before taking gote at b9
]
;B[el]
;W[hl]
;B[gm]C[BGAadmin [-\]: 2 moves, 1 min.
]
;W[cl]
;B[bk]
;W[km]C[BGAadmin [-\]: 3rd overtime period over. If I am counting right.
]
;B[jn]C[RubberDuck [?\]: has to be b10
BGAadmin [-\]: AS is muttering 'stupid' under his breath.
BGAadmin [-\]: He knows he played the wrong move under tiem pressure.
RubberDuck [?\]: c8 was a bit hasty, normal is b9 and connect cleanly
]
;W[aj]C[FFGScribe5 [-\]: if only the time limits had been longer
aristokrat [2d\]: lol
aitkensam [-\]: he would just think longer in the opening :p
RubberDuck [?\]: a10 at b10 definitely better
RubberDuck [?\]: w may forget to l1 now he is flustered
]
;B[bn]C[failbetter [5d\]: b can now c7 b8 b6 a9 a6 n17 o18 in sente and move to m2 ?
guapo [1k\]: no need to fic c6?
guapo [1k\]: fix
RubberDuck [?\]: w should L1 now
failbetter [5d\]: w cant cut c6 after this if thats what youre asking
SimbaRules [1k\]: Roughly what is the score?
RubberDuck [?\]: moves around k17 are more interesting for black than m2
]
;W[oe]
;B[nd]
;W[mc]
;B[lc]C[Chilltime [2d\]: o16 is a mistake isnt it?
Chilltime [2d\]: i would just take at m15
Lothus [1d?\]: wow
Filip41 [7k?\]: with this i would say b is ahead
Filip41 [7k?\]: or i dont see something
Ukasuhs [5d\]: with p16 sente, o6 is a problem again
]
;W[lb]C[patcher [1d\]: really ?
patcher [1d\]: even w l5 m6 ?
RubberDuck [?\]: o6, n7, then black makes an eye at n8
patcher [1d\]: "makes an eye"
patcher [1d\]: you mean connects
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but w can catch n5
RubberDuck [?\]: no, white can cut with o6
BGAadmin [-\]: AK still has 45 mins.
BGAadmin [-\]: AS 3 mins 7 6 stones.
Lothus [1d?\]: :P
BGAadmin [-\]: 3 mins & 6 stones.
patcher [1d\]: i cant see how w can ake n5
Lothus [1d?\]: 30 s per each
patcher [1d\]: to me it just seems like a reduction
]
;B[ld]C[patcher [1d\]: but no big deal for b
Ukasuhs [5d\]: well without p16 as sente its probably not possible now
goren2 [2k\]: maybe l3 can live...
Ukasuhs [5d\]: but it wasnt huge anyway
RubberDuck [?\]: white should L1 then decide b8 or L18
patcher [1d\]: ok
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay  \\o/
BGAadmin [-\]: RIght, and L1 woudl complete this overtime period, mostly.
]
;W[lp]C[TobyM [2d?\]: Not speaking text, please can someone explain Lothus; last comment?
martin97 [1d\]: more countries should have a spectacular like this, the time settings must be amazing for the players!!!
martin97 [1d\]: its a head and two lift arms
BGAadmin [-\]: Cheering.
oasthouse [-\]: this seems risky for w
TobyM [2d?\]: Thanks
]
;B[kp]C[goren2 [2k\]: how is this eisky?
goren2 [2k\]: risky
]
;W[lr]
;B[kr]
;W[mq]
;B[kq]C[martin97 [1d\]: o6 to take n5?
goren2 [2k\]: l1
Ukasuhs [5d\]: right now o6 p16
aristokrat [2d\]: cool stuff
Ukasuhs [5d\]: o6 has no force
Ukasuhs [5d\]: or
Ukasuhs [5d\]: hmm
Firzen [3d\]: it does
Firzen [3d\]: should capture n5
]
;W[ks]C[Ukasuhs [5d\]: no, o6 p16 is still fine for w
Ukasuhs [5d\]: for b
Firzen [3d\]: good point
martin97 [1d\]: ok thx
]
;B[oc]C[BGAadmin [-\]: W has < 1 min.
nuubcakes [?\]: yes! p17!
BGAadmin [-\]: And 2 stones to play.
]
;W[ob]
;B[pc]C[goren2 [2k\]: a9
BGAadmin [-\]: And, AS loses on time.
aitkensam [-\]: aww how sad
martin97 [1d\]: b8 better
Plax [10k\]: oh
FrenchDude [4d?\]: no
FrenchDude [4d?\]: urgh
oasthouse [-\]: oh noes
martin97 [1d\]: such a pity
Lothus [1d?\]: my love won \\o/
Ukasuhs [5d\]: i think that theres no good way to fight for w here though
fru123sb [5k\]: wat
Plax [10k\]: congratulations to the winner
Lothus [1d?\]: Andrew Kay forever \\o/ :) 
goren2 [2k\]: what's the prize?
Plax [10k\]: a date with Lothus
BGAadmin [-\]: The trophy is a very nice floor goban.
goren2 [2k\]: nice.  
BGAadmin [-\]: That you can see on http://www.britgo.org/bchamp/index.html
Lothus [1d?\]: this ehavy goban ;p
copsewood: Congrats AK !
clydesdale [3k\]: jealosy will get me nowhere
BGAadmin [-\]: So, ANdrew Kay keeps that for another year.
Lothus [1d?\]: the prize should contain someone who willc arry it after the winner
]))
